How much does the rebound of a practice pad matter in your opinion?

Bozozoid said:
I have the stop sign real feel pad. I've tried practicing double strokes wanting to achieve Dave Weckls speed but something is just f'ing wrong. I'll do some practicing daily but two weeks later when I'm experiencing little if any progress I just get pissed and walk away. I've watched Dave..Jojo..and Tommy but it's like I need some kind of pill or something..two weeks with nothing?. I'm reading all of the responses hoping for a glimpse into SOMETHING.
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Try separating your hands and just do one at a time: RR RR RR RR LL LL LL LL (good exercise in itself). Once your hands are even, put them together. As for speed, practice practice practice.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
Try separating your hands and just do one at a time: RR RR RR RR LL LL LL LL (good exercise in itself). Once your hands are even, put them together. As for speed, practice practice practice.
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I'll do as you described. The technique that's the bit--...is the stroke and pull as Dave describes. (That's) where the trouble starts. I don't know if any of you are conscious of that technique but it's how Dave mentions it getting the strokes clean. He shows what it sounds like with and without that push pull technique. OK..im on it. More in a couple of weeks...over and out.
 
Bozozoid said:
I have the stop sign real feel pad. I've tried practicing double strokes wanting to achieve Dave Weckls speed but something is just f'ing wrong. I'll do some practicing daily but two weeks later when I'm experiencing little if any progress I just get pissed and walk away. I've watched Dave..Jojo..and Tommy but it's like I need some kind of pill or something..two weeks with nothing?. I'm reading all of the responses hoping for a glimpse into SOMETHING.
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Can you post a video of your pad practice?

Two weeks will do something, but not much. Jojo and Tommy have been at it for DECADES, every single d**n day. You need six weeks, every day, 15 minutes or so (twice a day, if you can) to make noticeable improvement. The muscles and neurons need lots of time to strengthen and acclimate themselves. It's boring and repetitive, and you won't see progress for long stretches. But, if after six weeks of this, the speed isn't mostly there, then there's a technique issue holding you back. Thankfully, technique issues can be fixed.

The GHFAL Advanced routine is as good a metric as any. It has a bunch of paradiddle variations at 180 bpm (paradiddles and their variations are played at a 16th note rate). Tommy Igoe is able to do this stuff cleanly at 202bpm, which is VERY FAST. On my best day so far, I'm up to 195, and it took at least 2 months.
 
Bozozoid said:
I have the stop sign real feel pad. I've tried practicing double strokes wanting to achieve Dave Weckls speed but something is just f'ing wrong. I'll do some practicing daily but two weeks later when I'm experiencing little if any progress I just get pissed and walk away. I've watched Dave..Jojo..and Tommy but it's like I need some kind of pill or something..two weeks with nothing?. I'm reading all of the responses hoping for a glimpse into SOMETHING.
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Two weeks should definitely feel like something. Maybe take a skype lesson with one of the killers on here so someone can watch what you're doing.
I'm currently on Bill Bachman's site a couple times a day after seeing it recommended by Marcus, and I have to say it's the one method that was game changing for me. I'm not one of these miracle-seekers who wants to do the fastest roll ever, I just want solid rudimental technique. Good rolls, nifty diddles, and some flammy whammy. That's what I feel I'm getting from BB/ drumworkout.com. Since he's funny and it costs less than Hulu, you have nothing to lose. He does a ton of reps with you (via recorded videos), you get a lot more done, and that may be the greatest benefit to it all.
 
Spreggy said:
Two weeks should definitely feel like something. Maybe take a skype lesson with one of the killers on here so someone can watch what you're doing.
I'm currently on Bill Bachman's site a couple times a day after seeing it recommended by Marcus, and I have to say it's the one method that was game changing for me. I'm not one of these miracle-seekers who wants to do the fastest roll ever, I just want solid rudimental technique. Good rolls, nifty diddles, and some flammy whammy. That's what I feel I'm getting from BB/ drumworkout.com. Since he's funny and it costs less than Hulu, you have nothing to lose. He does a ton of reps with you (via recorded videos), you get a lot more done, and that may be the greatest benefit to it all.
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Skype?...for me!?..i have trouble remembering what side my gas lids on while pulling in the convenient store. I have to stand over the spaghetti so I don't under over boil it. This isn't being humorous either. I'll do the single hand thing for a couple of weeks and give a report. I just want fast singles and doubles as I'd actually use this now and then. I have this feeling that one day something will click and it's the light bulb moment where you think...thats it!?...ive waited forever for this and 10 years later something clicks?..i don't know ill be overjoyed or upset. Stay tuned.
 
ToneT said:
I spend a lot of time using my small Moongel pad. Makes me concentrate on my upstrokes, is super-quiet, and there is no rebound.
For more standard pads I use the larger Vic Firth. I love using my Quiet Tone mute on a snare drum with the snares engaged.
Ever try using a Quiet Tone mute on top of a bed pillow?
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in the recent past, I have found the magic of upstrokes...combined with a good rebound, they can make combining soft and loud hits a breeze if you know how and where to place them
 
Joffry said:
I've been thinking about increasing the time I spend on my practice pad just to focus on technique, but this question came to me when I realized that my Evans "RealFeel" practice pad has much more rebound than most of the surfaces on my drum set.

How important do you think it is for the surface rebound of a practice pad to mimic those of a drum set? I feel like the real feel is too bouncy for my technique on it to transfer to the drum set. On the other hand, Tommy Igoe uses a real feel and he's a fantastic drummer on the set so I'm not really sure what to think.
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As drummers, we play on different surfaces on a regular basis. As for the most part, an orchestral drummer, I regularly play on a variety of snares, toms, timpani and assorted accessories. I practice a lot on pads. I have a Vic Firth and a Real Feel pad. I also play in swing bands on my Gretsch kit. Sure, some pads are bouncy. Just be ready to adapt, or you could have problems if you change kits, or heads.
 
Push pull stroke said:
The best exercise I’ve found to maximize the benefit of it are accent-tap exercises with doubles, played very slowly, with really high stick height.
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^^^^^THIS!^^^^^

That's what I do too ... alternating hands (work your weakest!) and alternating the accents, like this played as 8th notes ... then accent anywhere else for variety. Stick height high on the accent, all others at same lower height. Like others opined, I feel it helps you establish control of the rebound.

EDIT: It didn't display so well, but accent the 1st note of each the pairing for the 1st measure, then accent the 2nd half for the 2nd measure.
>....>....>....>....>....>....>....>
RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR
 
Because it exaggerates the physics involved with stick bounce and the interaction with the human hand, I think the rubber pad should be used only to learn/examine new techniques. I wouldn't use it to maintain. Which means it shouldn't be used that much, as a % of your overall playing.

That's the ideal scenario. If rubber is your only outlet because of noise/cost considerations, then playing is better than not playing.
 
I like to practice rudiments on my snare because it's what I actually play , the feedback you get from a real drum really shows problems, and 90% of the sound is from the head so I'm a Drum Head now.
 
Lefty38-55 said:
^^^^^THIS!^^^^^

That's what I do too ... alternating hands (work your weakest!) and alternating the accents, like this played as 8th notes ... then accent anywhere else for variety. Stick height high on the accent, all others at same lower height. Like others opined, I feel it helps you establish control of the rebound.

EDIT: It didn't display so well, but accent the 1st note of each the pairing for the 1st measure, then accent the 2nd half for the 2nd measure.
>....>....>....>....>....>....>....>
RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR
Click to expand...

This exercise, played slowly and cleanly with really high stick heights, is SO helpful. I wish I’d been playing it for 35 years instead of just 2 or 3. And when you combine it with the alternating between pillow and super-bouncy surface, it forces you to pay so much attention to you technique habits.
 
I started using a 14" drum mute, on my snare, instead of the Real Feel and it has made a big difference for me. What's weird is working on the drum mute for 20 miniues or so and then going to the pad. The sticks will almost fly out of my hands.
 
Yamaha Rider said:
What is this upstroke magic of which you speak?
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if you know of the "Four Stroke Types" : full stroke, down stroke, tap stroke, and upstrokes, it is the latter fo the four. The stroke you take when you go from a lower level/soft dynamic tap stroke up to the bigger/louder dynamic full stroke.

knowing how to utilize the upstroke to create accents makes the combination of accent and tap strokes flow easier at faster tempos
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
if you know of the "Four Stroke Types" : full stroke, down stroke, tap stroke, and upstrokes, it is the latter fo the four. The stroke you take when you go from a lower level/soft dynamic tap stroke up to the bigger/louder dynamic full stroke.

knowing how to utilize the upstroke to create accents makes the combination of accent and tap strokes flow easier at faster tempos
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It makes push pull easier also.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
it is technically the "push" of push pull stroke right? I am not super familiar with push pull...
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The way I do it is drop* stroke, up stroke. This guy does it similar:
He compares it to moeller and gravity blast, but whatever. It's just another way to use the stick.

*It was taught to me as dropping or tossing the stick for the first hit. Not a traditional down stroke, but a down stroke nonetheless.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
The way I do it is drop* stroke, up stroke. This guy does it similar:
He compares it to moeller and gravity blast, but whatever. It's just another way to use the stick.

*It was taught to me as dropping or tossing the stick for the first hit. Not a traditional down stroke, but a down stroke nonetheless.
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wow...that looks to me like a really out of control way to play...if I played with my hands that loose, the sticks would be flying everywhere < probably due to my marching upbringing (I am much more used to having my fingers closer to the palm of my hand, and my pinch tighter...they still flex and move, but my over all grip is not that lose)

I wonder if I can adapt that to my kind of grip....new challenge!!
 
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