Career ceilings

Recently I began to realize my music career doesn’t have much scope for growth, perhaps mainly due to my location. Also mainly because I’m a weekend player with day jobs and going full time (if there even was the opportunity) is not going to afford me a home of my own.

I won’t make this about my career or playing, I typed some of that up but decided it would be distracting and mostly irrelevant. I have had a short but pretty good career, I probably skipped the step of gradually working my way up and went straight to playing with talented musicians, part luck, part enthusiasm for drums, not without a few reality checks though. Nothing compared to some of the careers you guys have had but I have had a good run, that’s all I’m trying to say.

Now I’ve been around for a little while I realize that what I expected when I first took the stage and what I expect now are different.

I feel like I’ll be doing more or less what I do until I’m too old/suffer health issues or die. If I can reach an elite playing level I expect that I will never have a quiet weekend, but more or less playing the same sort of venues, the pay might not change as it hasn’t in 10 years. And I know I’ll still have a day job.

I feel like this is the stage some drummers reach before they decide to quit.

Maybe I need to move away from contemporary and dive into jazz.

I don’t count becoming a high school music teacher or writing drum books or even drum tutoring as any sort of improvement, I just want to be a good drummer and get paid for it.

I planned to somehow cleverly turn this into a question but I am happy to just hear some similar experiences and philosophies. Maybe tell me about your old gretsch. My Facebook account got shut down so I have plenty of free time

Duck Tape said:

Recently I began to realize my music career doesn’t have much scope for growth, perhaps mainly due to my location. Also mainly because I’m a weekend player with day jobs and going full time (if there even was the opportunity) is not going to afford me a home of my own.

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You have to speculate to accumulate.
If you are working full time as a touring musician you can probably afford a home. You get to that stage by sacrificing a lot as a youngster, when you have fewer needs or responsibilities.
I always say, unpopular opinion, that it's almost impossible to have a music career while doing a day job. When I got started I had no money, dossed on floors and ate toast every day. If people want more comfort, it's likely they aren't cut out for a full time in music.
I was always available 24/7. I didn't have to turn any opportunity down, or take a day off work. If there was a tour going, however short, I didn't have to combine it with my annual holiday allocation.
I moved from the parental home to London, where I didn't know anyone, but I knew there was more opportunity.
Things have changed a little on that front, with Youtube affording you visibility and connections even from the remotest country town, and remote recording, etc.
Sadly there is a similar division between 'cred' cool musicians, and working musicians who are playing covers or tribute bands.
When you are in line for a cool original gig, the artist wants to see your track record of cool original gigs, not that you have spent the previous 12 months playing Twisted Sister or The Eagles.
In a way anything can happen, there are no hard and fast rules except one - it can be brutal, judgemental and very prejudiced out there.

There are a few lucky people out there who get to play drums, and only play drums, to make a living. These days, making an actual living in the music industry includes so much more than just playing music. You simply have to have multiple sources of income in order to make ends meet.

I'm so thankful that I have a day job that I love because the music business is absolutely horrible, yet I can not or will not stop playing music and gigging until I am physically or mentally unable to do so.

Nothing has changed in a long time.

It really depends how important money is to you.
Of course in Europe we have welfare and health benefits. If I had to worry about getting sick it would be another matter.
I know a lot of non-famous musicians who are very happy in music full time. They aren't rich, but they can eat and pay their bills.
They are their own boss and are being creative all day, every day.
Of course it's got a whole lot harder since piracy, streaming and the collapse of income from studio work.
Some of the best paid musicians I know are in function bands (weddings, corporate conferences etc) and tribute/cover bands.
My friends in The Dire Straits Experience are all full time and typically gig about ten times a month, with industry standard pay.

I know quite a handful of professional musicians on a personal level. Almost every single one of them is a combination of the following:

Poor
Divorced at least once or chose not to have kids or family because of career in music
Crummy relationships with kids
Substance abuse history
Unhappy
Mentally unstable (I'm not joking). It's almost the more talented they are, the crazier they are.

PorkPieGuy said:

There are a few lucky people out there who get to play drums, and only play drums, to make a living. These days, making an actual living in the music industry includes so much more than just playing music. You simply have to have multiple sources of income in order to make ends meet.

I'm so thankful that I have a day job that I love because the music business is absolutely horrible, yet I can not or will not stop playing music and gigging until I am physically or mentally unable to do so.

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I'm in this boat too. I have a day job that pays the mortgage, bills, taxes and healthcare. Contrary to what people think we don't have free healthcare (if you work for a living anyway). I've got a couple of pensions that will look after me when I'm old and decrepit. OP - there's nothing wrong in wanting a bit of security in life.

On the wedding/function scene you bump into a lot of people who do them full time and it's not something I'd ever do full time. They're just desperate for money and there's always some BS back story. They are some of the most miserable folk I've met and I've seen it warp people to drink and drugs. The other thing is I'd never see my wife which again is why a lot of these full time guys are in failed relationships/marriages.

I like having a little side hustle that pays for holidays and little extras and that's how I've always looked at it.

It depends what culture you live in and the type of people you run into.
The two types of pros I run into are younger, left college ten-fifteen years ago. They will have a beer, maybe one too many, but not dysfunctional people at all. The others are old pros, the people who were doing major gigs 20-30 years ago. They may have been heavy on the drugs and drink back then, but now they've grown out of it, or they realise it wouldn't fly today and they'd never hold down a gig.
I know people in Ringo's band, also in the McCartney band. It is very much moderation. You can't afford to f**k up on the gig, or even be a pain to be around.
The barely mid-level tour I did for three months at the end of 2024, me and the guitarist would have couple of beers. The artist and his oldest collaborator were tee-total. Not because they had to be due to AA or NA, but because we're all in our 60's and it's hard topaz a 2 hour show every night while partying.
I bump into a lot of full time musicians all the time and unless you are Pete Docherty or Liam Gallagher, it is really uncool to be druggie or alcoholic. There are just too many incredible musicians out there desperate for work that artists won't put up with pain in the ass band members or people who screw up on the gig.
Finally yes, a lot of us are divorced. I think a big part of it is being away 10 months of the year. Never seeing your wife, the wife having to do all the child care, take care of important events like first steps, birthdays, illness etc. It is a strain on relationships.
To conclude...
The whole womanising, partying, druggie, boozy musician is kind of a cliche I rarely see in actual real life on the road.

I feel like, in my youth, I thought all musicians just gotr payed to only play their instruments. As I got older, and wiser(?), I realized that most professional musicians also are:
sound engineers
teachers
producers
writer/arrangers/publishers
managers
public relations people
visual/content artists

I think you have to wear more hats other than your playing one to be a professional musician

I started years ago thinking that I was going to just play drums for a living...and here I am , 40 years later, doing all of the above as a professional musician.

and my ceiling has never been defined by money and fame, but by "did I meet my goals". I don't have a ceiling so much as I have a "convertible" or a veranda...there is no end to my goals....

I consider myself to have had a music “career” from 2007-2020. I was able to pay my bills and raise my kids with the amount I was playing/teaching and the amount I was getting paid. Since the pandemic, the gigs went away and have come back. I’m playing just as many gigs as before, but the cost of living has jumped up significantly, and the pay of many of the gigs has gone down, as if the pandemic gave the venues “permission” to shift the pay scale down to pitiful levels.

I now am working a day job, but looking for a different one. And, of course, I’m playing gigs on top of that. But, I don’t consider music my “career” anymore. Sad to say, I think I peaked…

As I firmly plant my feet in the 50s and take stock of where I've arrived in my life, career and music, I find myself conflicted. I'm a relatively large fish in an increasingly small pond with stagnant water. I can play all I want if all I want to do is play covers in resort towns, or if I want to learn guitar and do acoustic gigs in coffeehouses and restaurants. But as an originals-oriented songwriting musician in my 50s more interested in rock, punk and progressive rock in a very small, rural town, while adulting and holding down a full-time day job... yeah, location is definitely a limiter. Even still, the one band I've hung onto is a labor of love with my two best friends, so I don't know how I let that go anytime soon.

The local scene sucks, though. Very few places even care to book originals artists. The resort towns are a grind. One of the reasons I quit the last covers band is because they exclusively played in one of these resort town where everything closed at the same time and I could never get an actual meal on gig days. Another nearby resort town has almost nowhere to park without paying an arm and a leg, and on busy weekends it's like a bowlful of feral cats. And the town where I live? There's like one bar that hosts full volume original rock gigs. One.

Having said that, at some point in the future I will relocate. We'll see what I choose to do then. A former bandmate of mine retired to Laughlin and plays as much as he wants to. Southern California appeals as well. The other issue is, at a certain age you're pigeonholed into dad rock cover bands, and nothing could appeal less to me.

The other issue I dread is of course the passage of time. The Army bequeathed me a host of physical issues, and hauling drums around all summer long never feels great. And as you get older, fewer people seem to want to watch you play your own stuff. It is what it is. I guess that's why so many of us build basement studios and record our own stuff.

Jonas Hellborg once said, “If you want to make money, go make money.”

Music isn’t something I did for money, but it would have been nice. But the way it works nowadays, if you do manage to get with someone making money, unless you’re with someone as generous as Taylor Swift, the leader will make the real money and you will be kept on a wage. And that often goes for local bands as well, although the scale is obviously not as grand.

Could have saved myself some aggravation had I gone to college and pursued making money I went to college but didn’t see it through because I’m a musician/entertainer.

This is an interesting thread. Thanks for starting it, @Duck Tape! Some points that people have brought up so far have really hit home, and have me contemplating my own thing. My post reflects my situation only - everyone is dealing with a different situation (locale, music scene, other jobs, family requirements, etc,…)

I play gigs to pay the bills. I have a modest pension from a previous career that helps, but if I don’t gig 8-10 times per month, I go in the hole. That in and of itself means that I have to sometimes take gigs I’m not really into. In particular, the sub jobs I do at a few churches is a real drag. Modern worship music doesn’t inspire me, and the volume levels required are like playing arena rock concerts, which is as far away from my playing preference as I could possibly want to be.

Most of the time, though, I get to play music I love, both covers and originals, with my best buddy and a few other great guys. Even these gigs have come at a cost, though. I literally had to beg myself into my duo gig that’s my primary source of income now. My duo partner and I were in a lucrative band that broke up right before COVID, and he had moved on to doing solo gigs. I begged him to let me come play, for free, because I was sitting at home doing nothing.

Because he’s a good friend, he made sure I got paid. Soon, both he and the venues realized that the duo format was a winner, especially in the post-COVID gigging landscape. Now it’s to a point that the duo gigs outnumber the full band gigs 10 to 1. Of course, it always sounds better with the full band, but money splits better 2 ways than 4, and many places specifically request the duo for the space and volume advantages it brings.

We play old soul, R&B, country and pop stuff that we mutually love. We like to say we play songs that you forgot you loved. Being a duo format means that we get to reimagine everything, which keeps things fresh even on songs that have been played out decades ago. When the other guys are available and the gig calls for it, the full band things are a nice addition. Everything sounds fuller and better, even if our wallets aren’t as full at the end of the night.

My duo guy and I also write and record original music, with the only goal in mind being personal satisfaction. The original stuff is a total labor of love and we lose money at it, but it’s a great outlet to keep the creative juices flowing. Even with all that, I still have an itch to put together my own little instrumental trio. Something to keep me busy on off days and perhaps work some restaurant gigs + maybe a bit of recording.

Not to be total downer but there is dwindling revenue in the "music business" and it's really not going to get better. The golden age is over.
I just read a quote from an another commenter on another site, that to paraphrase said "that we're nearing the end of music having any monetary value. The awkward dance between music and Capitalism is over, Capitalism won".
I agree with that sentiment pretty much. The rise of recording technology and distribution in the early 20th century brought big money into the music business. The arrival of the digital age with streaming, home recording, the collapse of record labels (which everybody hated - but actually acted as "gatekeepers" to a degree), etc. has led to a race to bottom. Local music scenes have pretty much died. Young people are into gaming, social media and video. Music stores have closed. Recording studios have closed. Mastering houses have closed. Even my friends that play in successful Cover bands say that there's less and less people coming to shows and the audience is getting REALLY old. And if one looks at the current state of pop music, it's just so shamefully bad so much so that I wonder if there's any human element in it at all. AI generated??

If you want to stay in music, you gotta do it for the love of it. Trying to make money at it as a player, songwriter, etc? It's just not going to happen like it did in the old days.

I'm an optimist. Everything goes in cycles and the next generation often rejects the values of the previous generation.
I read recently that electronic artists are hiring musicians to play on stage because audiences have got tired of seeing someone standing, pushing faders up and down, even with amazing light shows.
I got burned out on guitar band music in the 90's, but I can see genuine bands with people playing making a big comeback in the future.
You are seeing a gradual (too slow) push back on the 'Tech Bros'. these are the billionaires who reduced everyone's income, but it really started with creative people, with the piracy epidemic and the 'solution' of streaming.
Facebook, Youtube, Spotify etc all got filthy rich by offering cheap music to the masses while not paying the creators.
People are starting to appreciate this now, now that the average worker is being replaced or seeing their income decimated.

John B said:

The awkward dance between music and Capitalism is over, Capitalism won".

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I just want to point out that it’s not capitalisms fault if people are corrupt or if industries conspire to gatekeep or steer things for their own gain. Capitalism is what motivated the artists pre-Napster and pre-Spotify. In my opinion governments have failed to protect the arts and we are witnessing a controlled and deliberate collapse of music as well as many other things. Daniel Ek and anyone like him is a criminal in my opinion.

Thanks for all the great responses, it really helped me understand that we’re all navigating the same things.

It's supply and demand. There are too many musicians pursuing too few dollars. Musicians have unrealistic expectations and try to make a living doing something that should actually be a hobby or occasional part-time work at best.

I can cite many examples of musicians who cling to the belief that they're on the cusp of being rich and famous. Music is their passion and no other work will do. They won't "lower themselves" to perform any other sort of work. What money they do earn just seems to slip through their fingers. As a result, they end up poor.

My neighbor's daughter is a good example. She's extremely talented and her band has even played at the Grand Ol' Oprey. Trouble is... They only gig maybe 4-5 times a year playing niche music most people don't want to hear. She can't even afford to support herself but refuses to perform any other work than playing on stage.

Sadly, her elderly parents who worked hard their whole lives, saved and sacrificed, are keeping her afloat financially.

A J said:

It's supply and demand. There are too many musicians pursuing too few dollars. Musicians have unrealistic expectations and try to make a living doing something that should actually be a hobby or occasional part-time work at best.

I can cite many examples of musicians who cling to the belief that they're on the cusp of being rich and famous. Music is their passion and no other work will do. They won't "lower themselves" to perform any other sort of work. What money they do earn just seems to slip through their fingers. As a result, they end up poor.

My neighbor's daughter is a good example. She's extremely talented and her band has even played at the Grand Ol' Oprey. Trouble is... They only gig maybe 4-5 times a year playing niche music most people don't want to hear. She can't even afford to support herself but refuses to perform any other work than playing on stage.

Sadly, her elderly parents who worked hard their whole lives, saved and sacrificed, are keeping her afloat financially.

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there are non musician/artists who also believe the same thing:

"I graduated from college/finished trade school, and deserve 7 figures...I refuse to take anything less, and will live with my parents until I get it..."

I have many alums from my band program who live in that mind set. They are "poor"...BUT, they have all of the latest tech; $10k of tattoos; randomly travel to far away places...

but they always come back to visit, and talk about how "there are no jobs out there..."

Duck Tape said:

Recently I began to realize my music career doesn’t have much scope for growth, perhaps mainly due to my location. Also mainly because I’m a weekend player with day jobs and going full time (if there even was the opportunity) is not going to afford me a home of my own.

I won’t make this about my career or playing, I typed some of that up but decided it would be distracting and mostly irrelevant. I have had a short but pretty good career, I probably skipped the step of gradually working my way up and went straight to playing with talented musicians, part luck, part enthusiasm for drums, not without a few reality checks though. Nothing compared to some of the careers you guys have had but I have had a good run, that’s all I’m trying to say.

Now I’ve been around for a little while I realize that what I expected when I first took the stage and what I expect now are different.

I feel like I’ll be doing more or less what I do until I’m too old/suffer health issues or die. If I can reach an elite playing level I expect that I will never have a quiet weekend, but more or less playing the same sort of venues, the pay might not change as it hasn’t in 10 years. And I know I’ll still have a day job.

I feel like this is the stage some drummers reach before they decide to quit.

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Why are you doing it, I guess. If it hinges on acheiving some kind of career goal, I don't think that will make it. Needing that to do it is part of why it's not going to happen.

Duck Tape said:

Maybe I need to move away from contemporary and dive into jazz.

I don’t count becoming a high school music teacher or writing drum books or even drum tutoring as any sort of improvement, I just want to be a good drummer and get paid for it.

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That's kind of a tall order. I can name a couple of dozen other great drummers right here in Portland who could be working more-- playing more. By great I mean they could cover >99% of gigs-- excellently, or at least credibly. Most people have to get some or most of their money from something else. Usually teaching. Or whatever else they're talented at, and/or have a connection to do.

John B said:

Not to be total downer but there is dwindling revenue in the "music business" and it's really not going to get better. The golden age is over.
I just read a quote from an another commenter on another site, that to paraphrase said "that we're nearing the end of music having any monetary value. The awkward dance between music and Capitalism is over, Capitalism won".

Click to expand...

What else is new. The current raft of tech/VC industry PR/horses__t is that everybody's job is going to be obsolete, thanks to glorious AI. "We won and all current and future money is ours." Nobody serious lives their life by that.

Chris Whitten said:

I'm an optimist. Everything goes in cycles and the next generation often rejects the values of the previous generation.
I read recently that electronic artists are hiring musicians to play on stage because audiences have got tired of seeing someone standing, pushing faders up and down, even with amazing light shows.
I got burned out on guitar band music in the 90's, but I can see genuine bands with people playing making a big comeback in the future.
You are seeing a gradual (too slow) push back on the 'Tech Bros'. these are the billionaires who reduced everyone's income, but it really started with creative people, with the piracy epidemic and the 'solution' of streaming.
Facebook, Youtube, Spotify etc all got filthy rich by offering cheap music to the masses while not paying the creators.
People are starting to appreciate this now, now that the average worker is being replaced or seeing their income decimated.

Click to expand...

At some point the people for whom only world domination is enough are going to decide there's not enough money for them in music, and do something else. Like Spotify is getting making a lateral move into inflammatory podcasts. Too hard to make money giving away music free, somehow. I'm sure they'd be happy to kill off the music portion of their business altogether.

To me the actual music business is all the people playing it, selling it, presenting it live, and buying it, paying to see it-- whatever portion of music-related commercial activity that exists outside of the streaming entities' strip mining operation.