Zildjian Cymbal reintroduction

New Keropes

Posted on dcp website. Not yet available. $1179 for a 22”. Yikes!!!
www.drummerworld.com

1746311577635.png


medium THIN low


It's the 37th attempt in near fifty years, at recreate one of the four variant's of Turkish "old" K. Zildjian's.
Old Stamp: I, II. II exc. IV. Intermediates and New Stamps

three (4) builds of old Ks. You can't mesh four distinct old K sounds "into" one "old K sound".
But they like trying.

And they end up with "ok this is a 5th old K variant?"..

there's been a thread
w/o the FB short reel.
Maybe Mod can mesh thread

it's why you'll sometimes see Independent cymbalsmiths zeroing in on a particular old K "era" and trying to duplicate just one era.

III Old Stamp is the most revered, altho 60s Intermediate, and 60s-70s New Stamp have charm too.
It's like K. Zildjian made in Istanbul were three different yet continuous cymbals ( 3 sound/builds/shapes/lathing etc) .
So either recreate one of the Eras or Declare a Fifth
(or in Avedis Zildjian case declare the latest a 77th)

Best Part: Old K were never (at all tailored for) "drum set" (use) cymbals They were made with Orchestra Symphony in mind. Hand Pairs. Suspended mallet rolls here and there not bebop.. It was Gretsch and Phil Grant who in New York in the late 40s 50s that said "Hey guys, Max Art Tony Taylor Try these I'll bring em down to the club tomorrow night"
 
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jda said:

New Keropes

Posted on dcp website. Not yet available. $1179 for a 22”. Yikes!!!
www.drummerworld.com

View attachment 157133


medium THIN low


It's the 37th attempt in near fifty years, at recreate one of the four variant's of Turkish "old" K. Zildjian's.
Old Stamp: I, II. II exc. IV. Intermediates and New Stamps

three (4) builds of old Ks. You can't mesh four distinct old K sounds "into" one "old K sound".
But they like trying.

And they end up with "ok this is a 5th old K variant?"..
Click to expand...
That kind of a tired old trope, trying to recreate that "old K" sound.

Honestly, I don't get it. I know K's are used on most of the standards, but the over all sound never did it for me. I've heard and played old K's in person, and to me they sound like garbage.

Some of my favorite cymbals on the classics are Morello or Ed Thigpen, not the K sound. I guess that's why I gravitate towards the "cleaner" sounds of Paiste.

I realize I'm clearly in the minority in jazz circles, but there is a sound out there for everyone.
 
If I'm Free I'll use them (old Ks) For 25 Years I've owned gigged studied others old Ks... Know exactly what they are (one mystery was they record (imo) better than they appear in person) (that's a bonus) and I see the relationship with Avedis Zildjian as a very close relationship moreso than anything from any modern post-80 Turkish maker (whom I view from experience as mostly costume jewelry)
They're reliable trustworthy sometimes you want a clearer brighter A; but as a hihat old Ks are for me near impossible to find a more comfortable pairing (2 of any era)

Most if not all -as I said- are Orchestra cymbals never tailored as ride crash etc. Never any swishes. never any Flats. Never any unlathed Turks or Antiques. No 24s till late 68 (as orch pairs the weight must not have been practical)

Just orchestra,
So. Lot of misunderstanding. Never duplicated. Not even by those who could. Namely A. Zildjian or Sabian (the other Zildjian) who did at least hand hammer hhs

One other thing sometimes forgotten. Old Ks are Zildjians,
and there's three general oldK sounds
Despite different continents there's a close symbiosis with A's

Aram brought something over to Avedis (and his sons) in 1929
I have my opinions on what it was.
Bob had it took it to Sabian. The modern post 80 Turkish makers when they restarted after 78 it flew right past their heads

It'd be easier to list cymbal brands and models (literally) I haven't had and I know the ones
I've for the long haul kept..

even back then With Old Ks you get a bite at the apple about Once..

Cymz 024.JPG

I made about 22 decisions never a bad one I did Ok pretty good.
Kept 18

Cymz 022.JPG

Cymz 017.JPG

I remember the time I was using all Paiste Sound Creations hats flats rides. One day I dusted off my old high school A's and put them up against. The old 60s A's were louder darker deeper and more powerful. That was a moment
 
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jda said:
If I'm Free I'll use them (old Ks) For 25 Years I've owned gigged studied others old Ks... Know exactly what they are (one mystery was they record (imo) better than they appear in person) (that's a bonus) and I see the relationship with Avedis Zildjian as a very close relationship moreso than anything from any modern post-80 Turkish maker (whom I view from experience as mostly costume jewelry)
They're reliable trustworthy sometimes you want a clearer brighter A; but as a hihat old Ks are for me near impossible to find a more comfortable pairing (2 of any era)

Most if not all -as I said- are Orchestra cymbals never tailored as ride crash etc. Never any swishes. never any Flats. Never any unlathed Turks or Antiques. No 24s till late 68 (as orch pairs the weight must not have been practical)

Just orchestra,
So. Lot of misunderstanding. Never duplicated. Not even by those who could. Namely A. Zildjian or Sabian (the other Zildjian) who did at least hand hammer hhs

One other thing sometimes forgotten. Old Ks are Zildjians,
and there's three general oldK sounds
Despite different continents there's a close symbiosis with A's

Aram brought something over to Avedis (and his sons) in 1929
I have my opinions on what it was.
Bob had it took it to Sabian. The modern post 80 Turkish makers when they restarted after 78 it flew right past their heads

It'd be easier to list cymbal brands and models (literally) I haven't had and I know the ones
I've for the long haul kept..

even back then With Old Ks you get a bite at the apple about Once..

View attachment 157138

I made about 22 decisions never a bad one I did Ok pretty good.
Kept 18

View attachment 157139

View attachment 157140

I remember the time I was using all Paiste Sound Creations hats flats rides. One day I dusted off my old high school A's and put them up against. The old 60s A's were louder darker deeper and more powerful. That was a moment
Click to expand...
Great summation @jda. What I’ve picked up is not so much a recreation of the old sounds but more a refinement of the previous iteration of Kerope which were of course a recreation. They are responding to comments/suggestions/criticisms from artists about the previous version. They created a new type of hammering. Zildjian doing what they do best!! Listening to drummers and innovating cymbal sounds. I can’t wait to get my hands on some.
 
The Zildjian Kerope line has been revamped.

They've adopted older K Con model names (MTH, MTL, and Thin High.

And one new addition
within the text - of this new "Medium Low" I find this sentence...

"The reimagined Kerope harkens back to its namesake intermediate stamp Turkish K’s,"

Zildjian 22" Kerope Medium Low Ride Cymbal | Reverb

1746457217982.png

I'm calling that a Win :)
 
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The marketing strategy is just strange to me-- like, I was told they were already making the best cymbals in the world, what were they doing before they released this one? It's like every few weeks they're announcing they just figured out how to make a real cymbal with whatever new thing.

I'm sure the cymbals are fine, good, maybe excellent. There are a lot of other people already making good or great jazz cymbals, it's good that there's one more option. But people's playing needs are individualized, there is no magic cymbal that replaces all the others.
 
toddbishop said:
I was told they were already making the best cymbals in the world, what were they doing before they released this one? It's like every few weeks they're announcing they just figured out how to make a real cymbal with whatever new thing.
Click to expand...

Armand's most favorite of mine ( and should be everybody's ) all time favorite quote.

"We (we meaning Avedis Zildjian Co.) can't make a better cymbal....
...we can only make different ones"


Let that sink in it answers everything
 
Those are way washier than any of the Three Era of Old Ks..

post- Constantinople era -beginning around 1940 - Old (I, II, II (IV) , Intermediate, and New - to 1978
but these new ones are still Zildjians
just "different"

they may even be "too light"
but they have the low sounding musical beautiful Bell that continues to elude modern Turkish makers.

Key's the zildjian Bell & Bridge but don't tell Bosphorus
they'll look at you crazy and say hmm they don't "get it"

<checkmate> <game> <set> <match>

Zildjian "bells" rarely if ever cause one to "wince"..

Some Paiste are good.
But they're a little higher territory (Swiss elevation..

60s Zildjian relaxed cup sound is the sound heard on a trillion records
Old Ks have it too. An even more dark and mysterious one..
 
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20" Thin High


"Guy likes the Bell" (must have been reading me. I'll pass on that one won't trade my old K 20 (either of them) for it.
Fella really accented the Bell. let's see whats next..

20" Medium Thin Low


'bell crazy again" not -bad.

Trouble is they make them "too-perfect" these days for fear of being run out of town...

22" Medium Thin High


nice after-ring..

and the show-stopper..

22" Medium Low Ride


they all got enough old K in them.
especially that low after-hum nice,

too bad they can't add-in some human error..

'or human -hair" that anything old has.


Zildjian Kerope Cymbal Series | A Legend Reborn

Shop the official Zildjian online store, featuring cymbals, drumsticks, and percussion mallets.
zildjian.com zildjian.com

one more thing if these were based off Intermediate (59-66) era Ks.. they have two more Era's to recreate from (Old 40-58 and New 67-78) and picked possibly the most undesirable ("dry, dark, ice with a mid freq hole") era- so after these expect more "different" ones forthcoming.. (butterfly breath-Old Stamps and warm fluffy mushroom- New Stamps)

Intermediates..geeze..
Old K eras are three different cups it's easy to see and dictates most all of the sound (along with the lathing evolution and some profile character's)
 
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(not that he couldn't afford or didn't have the opportunity to pick and choose gratis)
Tony William's Miles Davis era cymbal set of old K ride old K hats and an Avedis left side was probably intentional.
Maybe to balance things out
 
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The luster on these cymbals makes them a little brighter sounding than the old Ks, but I think once they're covered in some dust, or a patina, they'll sound just like the old Ks.

FCrNnKE.png


LOL that asinine price. Whoa boy. Go home Zildjian, you're drunk. I rarely feel like unleashing a profanity-laced tirade, but this is one of those times.

Zildjian is clearly using the high price of the vintage Ks as an excuse to charge an arm and a leg on these new cymbals. (Similar to what Tama did re-introducing the Tama Bell Brass at $4,000.)

The cynical side of my brain thinks this is a glorified price increase masquerading as a re-introduction. It's a shame, because these cymbals sound great, and us poors will never have the opportunity to play them.
 
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jda said:
i understand that is retail price the stores don't aren't listing them like that
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That's what the Chicago Music Exchange is charging on Reverb right now.

Maybe they're trying to scalp the full MSRP before they're widely available? Let's hope that's the case.

I don't think they'll sell many at $1200 a pop. Jazz musicians aren't exactly known for being loaded with cash.
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
The luster on these cymbals makes them a little brighter sounding than the old Ks, but I think once they're covered in some dust, or a patina, they'll sound just like the old Ks.

FCrNnKE.png


LOL that asinine price. Whoa boy. Go home Zildjian, you're drunk. I rarely feel like unleashing a profanity-laced tirade, but this is one of those times.

Zildjian is clearly using the high price of the vintage Ks as an excuse to charge an arm and a leg on these new cymbals. (Similar to what Tama did re-introducing the Tama Bell Brass at $4,000.)

The cynical side of my brain thinks this is a glorified price increase masquerading as a re-introduction. It's a shame, because these cymbals sound great, and us poors will never have the opportunity to play them.
Click to expand...
Always so weird when people complain about the price.
 
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