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Career ceilings

Chris Whitten said:
There is a school of thought - which through experience I buy in to - that if you don't fully commit you are almost setting up yourself for defeat.
Quote:
"do you know what, this is what I enjoy, this is what I'm doing, if it doesn't work out I'll deal with it later" The guy is now extremely successful:

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That's fabulous for him!

Probability is like gravity, however. Lots of youth gave everything they had and still aren't in the NFL either. Drywall or construction for most.

Best to have a solid backup plan first, this is my only point.
 
Chris Whitten said:
I did say it chimed with my own personal experience. Not just me but the people I meet in professional arts. They committed 100%.
You can do it when you are 18 to 35, and if it isn't happening, look for a different career then. Trouble is, most people don't want to be uncomfortable and take risks.
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so, my dad gave me two great pieces of wisdom in my teens:

1. Shut Up and Listen
2. Pursue your dreams first. Life will still be there when you are done...

the other 2 that helped me get through my years of living in a van and pursuing a record contact were:
1. money does not equal happiness
2. make sure you are happy with where you are in life when you turn 40...cause that is half way through...

his dream was to become a General in the Marine Corps. Long stories short, some of his decisions after boot camp sort of got in the way, and he ended up working for AEP for 35 years, and hated every minute of it. It drove him to drinking, and some other bad health issues. He quit drinking and smoking in his mid 40's - right when my band was starting to make the decisions to forsake all else and try to get signed. That is when he started to encourage me to go for it while I was young. Much to mom's dismay, of course. She kept tellign me to "do what everyone else does: go to college, get a job, have kids etc. etc." <---that life had NEVER been a dream of mine. I was glad that I had dad in my corner to continue the rock and roll dream.

Chris Whitten said:
Better to have loved and lost than not loved at all.
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Yep.

When that ended up not workign out, there it was...life; college; the 9-5 job. Still there, just like dad said. I lucked out - and sacrificed, as I still do now - and followed my 2nd dream - to be a drum line instructor. Fullfilling suggestions 3 and 4 from above. I have been super lucky to have rarely ever hated a day of work in my life. I make just enough money to sleep under a dry roof, and to eat a little, but I have been able to play drums eveeryday, and help young people find the love of drummign and music for the last 25 years.
 
Cmdr. Ross said:
@bermuda This sounds like a thread right down your ally...
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I'll take a stab at it...

It's all very subjective. Concepts like success and career ceiling mean different things to different people depending on their age, locale, family situation, and especially what they want from their playing. Do they want money? Do they want status? Do they simply enjoy playing and any cash or exposure is a bonus? Do they resent making money because then they think they've sold out??

I guess I'm at a career ceiling, admittedly a healthy (dare I say enviable?) one. And now in my late-sixties, I can't see myself trying to get to the next level (whatever that might be for an older player trying to make a move.) In a field where there's no real career path, I know that I'm lucky to have a career as a player. I've never taken that for granted and still work hard to maintain my value to the people who employ me.

Most importantly, I truly enjoy playing the drums. It's fun for me to play for 50 people, or 5,000, or more. I don't resent playing Mustang Sally or Brown Eyed Girl or Chain Of Fools. I don't have an issue playing the original parts that make the song worth playing in the first place. I'm happy to play to a click, or not. I don't mind moving my drums around, it comes with the territory. And I don't try to rationalize the disparity in pay from band to band. That would probably be depressing if I was just in it for the money.

Re-reading my comments, my ceiling is a pretty good place to be. I know a lot of players would love to be in my shoes, and I suppose others might think I'm stuck in a rut and that I could do bigger things if I wanted. Again, everyone's situation and perception varies.
 
bermuda said:
I don't resent playing Mustang Sally or Brown Eyed Girl or Chain Of Fools.
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Also don't have a problem playing I Love Rocky Road, Eat It, or Like A Surgeon after 40+ years!
 
I enjoy the "skill" of drumming
I don't-didn't respect the "business" of Music enough to have gone "into" it
it -talking 1972- just seemed a shady unprofessional haphazard potential drugs "wimmen" alcohol early morning hours seedy exhaustive dangerous way to live or to pursue
I enjoy the "skill" of drumming for a lifetime
that's my "practice" like a lawyer scientist doctor practices
 
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Chris Whitten said:
Great advice IMO.
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Shut Up and Listen has:
- saved my life a million times
- made me more money than I would have normally had
- helped me develop a pretty solid reputation professionally
- generally made things much easier
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
there are non musician/artists who also believe the same thing:

"I graduated from college/finished trade school, and deserve 7 figures...I refuse to take anything less, and will live with my parents until I get it..."

I have many alums from my band program who live in that mind set. They are "poor"...BUT, they have all of the latest tech; $10k of tattoos; randomly travel to far away places...

but they always come back to visit, and talk about how "there are no jobs out there..." 😑
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ROFL dad sat myself and my brother down on the couch at the beginning of our senior year(s) in high school. 'You're going to be a man soon at 18 and graduation. At that point, you have three choices. College/Trade School, the Army or the street. We're not having any 25-year-old losers living at home following their dream at our expense.' My son got the same lecture. This thread brought back a good laugh and should serve as grounding for folks that believe in 1% odds.
 
Syncopated_1 said:
ROFL dad sat myself and my brother down on the couch at the beginning of our senior year(s) in high school. 'You're going to be a man soon at 18 and graduation. At that point, you have three choices. College/Trade School, the Army or the street. We're not having any 25-year-old losers living at home following their dream at our expense.' My son got the same lecture. This thread brought back a good laugh and should serve as grounding for folks that believe in 1% odds.
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yep...got the same speech from my dad....3 years after the "you are now 15, and if you want a car, you have to pay for it, the repairs, and the insurance....and the speeding tickets...so get your a$$ a job"

which I did, and got the car as well.....but never got any speeding tickets....
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
yep...got the same speech from my dad....3 years after the "you are now 15, and if you want a car, you have to pay for it, the repairs, and the insurance....and the speeding tickets...so get your a$$ a job"

which I did, and got the car as well.....but never got any speeding tickets....
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Also bought my first car myself from saving up working in a grocery store in high school. My high school also had a killer industrial arts program (auto, electrical, carpentry) and I took all 4 years of auto shop. Maintained it myself, insured it, filled it with fuel all from money I earned while working through high school and college.

How many of today's youth do you think are doing this today?
 
Syncopated_1 said:
Also bought my first car myself from saving up working in a grocery store in high school. My high school also had a killer industrial arts program (auto, electrical, carpentry) and I took all 4 years of auto shop. Maintained it myself, insured it, filled it with fuel all from money I earned while working through high school and college.

How many of today's youth do you think are doing this today?
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I have been teaching todays yout's (as Bad Brains calls them) and only 1 out of every 20 or 30 ever have jobs in high school any more. 15 years ago, it was a lot more.

some of my best memories of my teens are working on that car (a 69 Olds Delta 88 with a 455 Rocket...FAST!!) with my uncle. Over the years, we had pretty much completely restored the engine and body (I bought it for $75 off of the guy whose yard it had sat in for 15 years).

Also have a TON of great memories from working at various diners and restaurants as a dishwasher...learned a lot about the seedier side of life, and adults doing that. Gained lots of street smarts there.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
I have been teaching todays yout's (as Bad Brains calls them) and only 1 out of every 20 or 30 ever have jobs in high school any more. 15 years ago, it was a lot more.

some of my best memories of my teens are working on that car (a 69 Olds Delta 88 with a 455 Rocket...FAST!!) with my uncle. Over the years, we had pretty much completely restored the engine and body (I bought it for $75 off of the guy whose yard it had sat in for 15 years).

Also have a TON of great memories from working at various diners and restaurants as a dishwasher...learned a lot about the seedier side of life, and adults doing that. Gained lots of street smarts there.
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I had a cherry 1969 Plymouth Barracuda. The only issue I ever had was that it ran hot, it needed a fan shroud (metal fabrication back then was a lotta $$). After a thermostat change and a new radiator it did better, but I never drove it on hot days. Buddy of mine down the street had a car nut for a father. Had a convertible 1967 Corvette with the 350 hp (big deal back then) 327 with a four speed manual. Looked like it had just rolled off the assembly line. I thought about that car more than I thought about girls!
 
Syncopated_1 said:
Of making it 'big time' like so many of today's youth believe.
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I don't know what 'big time' means to you, but how many believe that? Are you dealing with a lot of professionally bound young musicians, or did you take a survey, or what?

Syncopated_1 said:
I'm all for taking a shot, as long as you have a place to go when it doesn't work out.
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That's clearly your feeling. It's not how professionals think-- taking shots-- so it's no mystery why it didn't work out for you.

Everyone would like to be famous, but people doing it seriously do it first as a job and a business. There's no businessperson in the world who says "OK, if I'm not as big as McDonalds in X months, I'm out, I'm doing lube jobs the rest of my life." No. You seek work and build up a business and figure out how to make it work.
 
toddbishop said:
I don't know what 'big time' means to you, but how many believe that? Are you dealing with a lot of professionally bound young musicians, or did you take a survey, or what?



That's clearly your feeling. It's not how professionals think-- taking shots-- so it's no mystery why it didn't work out for you.

Everyone would like to be famous, but people doing it seriously do it first as a job and a business. There's no businessperson in the world who says "OK, if I'm not as big as McDonalds in X months, I'm out, I'm doing lube jobs the rest of my life." No. You seek work and build up a business and figure out how to make it work.
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I would recommend a class in statistics.
 
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