Drum volume: Online vs. Real life

We’ve all commented about how loud all the internet drummers play. I’m finding that out in the real world, music volume is coming down. I don’t play at a fraction of the volume I used to. When clubs would play break music it would be deafening. Now it just sounds like background music. I already consider myself a bit of a tippy-tapper. My heads last years and my sticks last months. I go to venues and the crowd noise is louder than the band which is now duos or singers with tracks. I really don’t want to switch to a cajon or e-kit but I’m not sure I have any choice if I want to continue gigging. Maybe my time as a drummer is over.

We have a lot of acoustic duos and single acts going on in my area (Kansas) too. I have a Cajon but it's very hard on my back and I'm not very good at it. My son-in-law made it for me. I wish my classic rock band would turn down just a little.

DrumDoug said:

We’ve all commented about how loud all the internet drummers play. I’m finding that out in the real world, music volume is coming down. I don’t play at a fraction of the volume I used to. When clubs would play break music it would be deafening. Now it just sounds like background music. I already consider myself a bit of a tippy-tapper. My heads last years and my sticks last months. I go to venues and the crowd noise is louder than the band which is now duos or singers with tracks. I really don’t want to switch to a cajon or e-kit but I’m not sure I have any choice if I want to continue gigging. Maybe my time as a drummer is over.

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A while ago I talked about how a lot of venues are requesting that drummers play with Ekits, a lot of people here didn't agree, but then that was MY experience in my area (San Diego at the time). I have no issues playing with an ekit, in fact I always get a great mix which I don't always get with acoustic kits. I remember when I used to go to Deep Ellum (the Dallas TX bar area). The bands (including Drowning Pool) were extremely (dangerously) loud. I used to use napkins (a little ball) as earplugs to protect my hearing, you could not have a regular volume conversation even when the band was on a break because the DJ will play the music just as loud. I have not gone to a live music venue in years so I don't know how it compares now to then, but I am sure the volume has in fact decreased. (which is a good thing). My lunch box amp (a Joyo Zombie II) can power a half stack at full volume no problem, but for a small venue that is even way too much.

One thing I can think of is that people are more aware of hearing loss from loudness.

I am lucky in that I naturally developed a quieter playing style.

Ok but let’s separate BAND volume from DRUM volume. I think we all need to learn to play at low volume but The real Volume wars start with the guitarists.

lefty2 said:

We have a lot of acoustic duos and single acts going on in my area (Kansas) too. I have a Cajon but it's very hard on my back and I'm not very good at it. My son-in-law made it for me. I wish my classic rock band would turn down just a little.

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I also mentioned before that my biggest influence on live sound was this Mexican band (which funny enough they are still playing since the 90s).
I liked them because they were able to achieve a CD quality live mix, and it wasn't deafening either (the bar held about 200 people) yes it was loud but everything came so clear that I made it my mission in life to achieve similar results when playing live. So, I was constantly berating the guitar players for turning their volume way too high (If I can't hear my acoustic drums you are way too loud). I explained to them that it was not (insert guitar player's name here) show, it was all of us as a band, and the better all of us sounded the better HE sounded. It took at little persuasion but in the end we were able to get a pretty decent live mix, (never as good as my reference band):

opentune said:

Ok but let’s separate BAND volume from DRUM volume. I think we all need to learn to play at low volume but The real Volume wars start with the guitarists.

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I think volume wars start with individuals who play too loud, and that isn’t restricted to a single instrument.

I play guitar in a rock band and despite various lineup changes over the decades we’ve been lucky to only have had two musicians who played too loud. One was a guitarist, the other (and by far the worst offender) was a drummer.

I agree that band volume should be managed, and I’m fortunate that the majority of musicians I’ve played with have been considerate and accommodating.

There is a point, though, at which things can get so quiet that there’s really no point being there.

DrumDoug said:

We’ve all commented about how loud all the internet drummers play. I’m finding that out in the real world, music volume is coming down. I don’t play at a fraction of the volume I used to. When clubs would play break music it would be deafening. Now it just sounds like background music. I already consider myself a bit of a tippy-tapper. My heads last years and my sticks last months. I go to venues and the crowd noise is louder than the band which is now duos or singers with tracks. I really don’t want to switch to a cajon or e-kit but I’m not sure I have any choice if I want to continue gigging. Maybe my time as a drummer is over.

Click to expand...

An interesting observation that I find has less top do with "hearing protection" than with music being considered a distraction to some.
As it relates to recordings, both in new music and embedded audio in video, the overall volume has increased. The "loudness war" is alive and well in audio recording/production.
As far as live music, I agree that the volume has gone down but I believe there's a few other reasons for that. We need obviously to consider the genre of music. Not too many "rockin' guitar bands" are in vogue anymore and most music made nowadays is made with samples, etc. It's almost like the expectation for live music is that it should sound like a home stereo turned up slightly.
But...I think the biggest reason for the overall decrease in volume is quite simply that loud live music interferes with peoples ability to have conversations while attending shows. Sad to say, but I have been to so many shows in the past years where the audience doesn't really listen or show any modicum of respect for the performer. They freely talk over performances or walk right up in front of performers and take selfies by the stage.
Sorry to be such a downer, but I think we've entered the age where the people who enjoy music the most are the ones making it. The general public's attention is drawn to the ever present smartphone.

wasn't there a concert hall in Italy where there were no microphones and operatic events were performed
lemme ask grok

Teatro alla Scala in Milan, Italy, or other similar historic opera houses where operatic performances were traditionally done without microphones. These venues, including many in Italy, were designed with acoustics that allowed the natural voices of the performers to carry across the entire space, even to the furthest seats in the audience.

opentune said:

Ok but let’s separate BAND volume from DRUM volume. I think we all need to learn to play at low volume but The real Volume wars start with the guitarists.

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I had a gig last year with a 4-piece band. We rehearsed in the rhythm guitarists house and played to the room. No ringing ears afterwards. At the gig, held in a nice wooden barn with great acoustics, the lead guitarist was so loud he cleared the room.

jda said:

wasn't there a concert hall in Italy where there were no microphones and operatic events were performed
lemme ask grok

Teatro alla Scala in Milan, Italy, or other similar historic opera houses where operatic performances were traditionally done without microphones. These venues, including many in Italy, were designed with acoustics that allowed the natural voices of the performers to carry across the entire space, even to the furthest seats in the audience.

Click to expand...

Yes jda! I'm old enough to remember when bands played with miking the vocalist only!

jda said:

wasn't there a concert hall in Italy where there were no microphones and operatic events were performed
lemme ask grok

Teatro alla Scala in Milan, Italy, or other similar historic opera houses where operatic performances were traditionally done without microphones. These venues, including many in Italy, were designed with acoustics that allowed the natural voices of the performers to carry across the entire space, even to the furthest seats in the audience.

Click to expand...

Professional opera doesn't amplify singers on stage. There's opera, then there's the rest of the untalented world.

John B said:

An interesting observation that I find has less top do with "hearing protection" than with music being considered a distraction to some.
As it relates to recordings, both in new music and embedded audio in video, the overall volume has increased. The "loudness war" is alive and well in audio recording/production.
As far as live music, I agree that the volume has gone down but I believe there's a few other reasons for that. We need obviously to consider the genre of music. Not too many "rockin' guitar bands" are in vogue anymore and most music made nowadays is made with samples, etc. It's almost like the expectation for live music is that it should sound like a home stereo turned up slightly.
But...I think the biggest reason for the overall decrease in volume is quite simply that loud live music interferes with peoples ability to have conversations while attending shows. Sad to say, but I have been to so many shows in the past years where the audience doesn't really listen or show any modicum of respect for the performer. They freely talk over performances or walk right up in front of performers and take selfies by the stage.
Sorry to be such a downer, but I think we've entered the age where the people who enjoy music the most are the ones making it. The general public's attention is drawn to the ever present smartphone.

Click to expand...

I feel like - at least in my area - that this is the truth in cover band situations. Original band venues still crank the music pretty loud, and the audience is generally more respectful of the band becasue they are there to see the band. Socializing happens in between sets during change over.

but in cover band situations you are a live juke box. I never expect the audience to be respectful of me when playing a car show, or critter club. In the past 5 years, people don't even applaud after songs in those situations. After shows, maybe one or two people will come up and talk, but yeah.

Reduced volume level is a thing in my neck of the woods as well. The expectation at most venues is to keep it where patrons can still converse with regular speaking voices. We are often asked to turn down and try to accommodate those requests as best we can. Sometimes it doesn’t work out and we don’t play those venues again.

My duo guy and I have accepted and embraced the challenge, and it always feels like a “win plus” when we’re able to successfully navigate the lowest volume gigs. The pandemic changed our musical landscape profoundly. Most bars and large venues have given way to wine tasting rooms, country clubs, uppity restaurants, and well-heeled private events.

We didn’t ask for the change, but it’s here and we’ve adapted to it because we love playing music, each do it for our living, and take it as a point of professional pride that we’re able to thrive in places where many bands can’t. It’s also quite lucrative.

For shiggles, I’m including a quick vid from a venue where we were asked to turn down. I’m playing brushes and am unmic’d. You can hear the patrons flappin’ their gums all through it. Wild!

DrumDoug said:

I really don’t want to switch to a cajon or e-kit but I’m not sure I have any choice if I want to continue gigging. Maybe my time as a drummer is over.

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Nah...just get a kit like this. It's my Tama Club Jam-mini and this is perfect for a low volume setting. The hi hats are usually Sabian 13" "fast hats" but the rest is the same.



The best part about a kit like this is it's compact enough to play anywhere, it's not loud as a full on drum set & it's still technically "drums" unlike a cajon. I won't play an e-kit live to save my life because I don't trust them. One trigger or cymbal goes out & your whole show is shot.

I feel you on the low volume situation. I'm in a cover band & the bars we play in have noticeably reduced the overall volume of the band. I don't hit half as hard as I used to & learned a lot about dynamics doing so. I can say I'm sorta-ok with this new direction, but do miss the days of just channeling my inner Vinnie Paul & letting everyone have it!

jda said:

wasn't there a concert hall in Italy where there were no microphones and operatic events were performed
lemme ask grok

Teatro alla Scala in Milan, Italy, or other similar historic opera houses where operatic performances were traditionally done without microphones. These venues, including many in Italy, were designed with acoustics that allowed the natural voices of the performers to carry across the entire space, even to the furthest seats in the audience.

Click to expand...

I was at a little outdoor theater in Sicily, the acoustics of the place were awesome from anywhere you were seating. The cement bleachers were maybe 20 rows and my friends and I tested it, they would be on stage having a normal volume conversation, and I could be on the last row at the very top and would be able to hear them as if i was standing next to them. (This was due to the concave wall behind the stage which acted like and amplifier). I also have been to a similar place in Mexico but this one only had like 10 rows.

John B said:

An interesting observation that I find has less top do with "hearing protection" than with music being considered a distraction to some.
As it relates to recordings, both in new music and embedded audio in video, the overall volume has increased. The "loudness war" is alive and well in audio recording/production.
As far as live music, I agree that the volume has gone down but I believe there's a few other reasons for that. We need obviously to consider the genre of music. Not too many "rockin' guitar bands" are in vogue anymore and most music made nowadays is made with samples, etc. It's almost like the expectation for live music is that it should sound like a home stereo turned up slightly.
But...I think the biggest reason for the overall decrease in volume is quite simply that loud live music interferes with peoples ability to have conversations while attending shows. Sad to say, but I have been to so many shows in the past years where the audience doesn't really listen or show any modicum of respect for the performer. They freely talk over performances or walk right up in front of performers and take selfies by the stage.
Sorry to be such a downer, but I think we've entered the age where the people who enjoy music the most are the ones making it. The general public's attention is drawn to the ever present smartphone.

Click to expand...

Not sure what concerts you have been to but the ones I have been there seems to be quite a lot of people enjoying the bands, yes there are a few on their phones filming it but not to the point where nobody is paying attention to the band.
The lights in the pic are not from phones but from neck bands they sold at the entrance.

John B said:

Yes jda! I'm old enough to remember when bands played with miking the vocalist only!

Click to expand...

I thought you were going to say you were old enough to have seen bands perform there with just acoustic instruments (Roman times)

vxla said:

Professional opera doesn't amplify singers on stage. There's opera, then there's the rest of the untalented world.

Click to expand...

When Tarja Turunen (Ex Nightwish) did sound check, the band would be in the PA and she would just get on stage, no mic and was still louder than the band. Opera singers are way louder than we think.

I don't have Tarja on video doing that but here is a similar example (Sans the PA)

Cmdr. Ross said:

I won't play an e-kit live to save my life because I don't trust them. One trigger or cymbal goes out & your whole show is shot.

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In all the years playing gigs never once did anything failed me on an electronic drum kit.
I am not hard hitter so all my drums last a very long time, and with electronics you really don't need to hit hard, just turn the volume up.
The only thing that could fail was power but if the power went out the whole band would be out too.
Maybe try a kit at your rehearsal place for a few rehearsals and see if it would work out. Yes there is some adjustment period needed but once you go black you won't go back... just kidding, but I would say you are missing out if you never gigged with one because you can accomplish both have great sound and at low volume which is much harder to do with acoustic drums (You can only get so low before it just sounds like you are hitting paper and not drums) Acoustic drums are meant to be hit with certain force to reach a good note, same goes for hitting too hard, you can make good drums sound bad by hitting too hard and chocking them. The other thing is with electronic drums, you will never be out of tune because there were no out of tune sounds programmed in those modules.
Also didn't we just had a whole thread on what to take as spare parts for a gig with an acoustic kit? (that seems to be a recurring one too).
but for an ekit I would take an extra bass pad and an extra snare (If I was going to take any spare parts).