New vs Old: Yamaha hips

Hello everyone!

I was wondering if anyone has had hands-on experience with both the older Yamaha hip gigs (be it a Rick Marotta, Al Foster or Manu Katche) and the newer Stage Custom Hip? I know they have quite different aims and solutions, but they generally represent Yamaha' compact kit offering.

In this context, I am mainly asking about sound quality, build quality, feel.

If you were in the position to get an older hipgig over a newer SC Hip, would you take or leave it? The older hipgigs are harder to get nowadays, but are they worth the extra price that they fetch over the newer SC Hip?

Thanks in advance!

I've owned the Rick Marotta and the larger Al Foster model. Much preferred the Al Foster. Have not owned the Manu Katche model.
On the hip gigs I owned, both had typical excellent Yamaha construction. Sound was very nice, a bit on the warm side. I think they're were mahogany/birch but could be wrong. Setup was pretty fast. My only complaint about the kits, especially the Al Foster, was the weight of the kit when nested. Fairly heavy.
I would've kept them but then I found the Whitney Penguin nesting kit and never looked back.

galambborong said:

Hello everyone!

I was wondering if anyone has had hands-on experience with both the older Yamaha hip gigs (be it a Rick Marotta, Al Foster or Manu Katche) and the newer Stage Custom Hip? I know they have quite different aims and solutions, but they generally represent Yamaha' compact kit offering.

In this context, I am mainly asking about sound quality, build quality, feel.

If you were in the position to get an older hipgig over a newer SC Hip, would you take or leave it? The older hipgigs are harder to get nowadays, but are they worth the extra price that they fetch over the newer SC Hip?

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Actually yes. I had a very nice stage custom bop kit a few years ago and now have a Manu Katche Hip gig Jr kit, Japanese model.

I would take the older japanese made Manu over the stage customs.

I really loved the stage customs, great sounding birch kit, very light weight all around. The Manu kit has heavier rims and everything feels a bit better as far as how solid the bass legs are etc. My Manu is a 16" bass, which i just put a clear EMAD on and it sounds fantastic. Not boingy like i imgined a 16" bass would sound. The stage custom 18" bass is the standout of that kit, nice and punchy. I did not have the stage custom snare, I do have the 12" Manu snare and its really good, nice sounding, not like a popcorn snare, more of a good snare sound.

If you can find the Japanese made Manu Katche I would recommend that. The Stage custom is right there with it, I would buy another one if I found a deal.

I have a 1st Generation Manu Katche Hip Gig Jr. as well. Overall, it is a very nice kit and sounds good, but pricey back in the day for what it was. They are more afforadable on the used market now, but still hold their value fairly well. However, a little aside on this kit is the shell. It is the "luan" or "Phillipine Mahogany" with the vertical grain. It is the exact same shell that Yamaha used in their "YD" entry level series from the same time period. The YD were priced well under the Manu Katche kits. They were both made in Indonesia. The YD had limited size and finish (all wrapped) options and most came with power depth toms, so I've always thought of the Manu Katche kit as small size and more expensive YD's (upcharge for portability and the artist royalties). Some of the Katche kits were available in lacquer finishes as well. But the shells, brackets, spurs, legs, lugs etc. were all identical to the YD. There are still a few YD kits around. Usually pretty affordable. If you like the finish on them, snag them! Great sounding shells. The YD is a cheaper Katche kit with larger sizes

Cool, so seems the general consensus is that the older hipgigs are still preferable to the SC Hip. I do think I'd go for the MK Jr if there was one available at the moment, as I personally would prefer the 16" bass drum. Will have a look at the YD series - thanks @vyacheslav. @Jasta 11 - I have also been thinking of the SC bop over the SC hip, so good shout there.

I'm currently chatting with someone who's selling their Al Foster hipgig in very good condition, with a range of yammy hardware. The asking price is unsurprisingly a good bit higher than a brand new SC Hip + hardware.

The trickier thing with the Al Foster is not being able to properly try it before buying: I'd have to buy it, play it for a bit and sell it on if I decided it wasn't for me, whereas if I went down the SC Hip route, most drum stores in the UK can get it in and I can try it in store, or they have a reasonable return policy.

So the Al Foster has an extra risk attached - I have to buy it without trying it*, might not get what I paid for it if I resold, etc.

For me, the sound/feel matters most so ideally I'd want to audition them both for a bit - not easy to do at this stage. I should also just say I'm not exclusively looking at Yamaha; just started this thread to see what people think of the newer Hip vs older hipgig/jr kits!

* This is because of my own limitations on travel, not because the seller is unwilling! I have played a friend's Al Foster in the past, so have a general feel of the kit, but obviously would prefer to try the actual set itself.

galambborong said:

The trickier thing with the Al Foster is not being able to properly try it before buying: I'd have to buy it, play it for a bit and sell it on if I decided it wasn't for me, whereas if I went down the SC Hip route, most drum stores in the UK can get it in and I can try it in store, or they have a reasonable return policy.

Click to expand...

The Al Foster and Rick Morotta weren't produced in large numbers, and so command higher prices. Also, those drums are Birch/Philippine Mahogany shells ..... similar to the 8000 Tour Series drums. Build quality is +++ on the Al Foster. Check this one out


SC Hip is a whole different beast. I'm not a fan of shallow bass drums. Between the 20x8 bass drum of the SC Hip vs. the 18x15 of the SC Bop, I'd choose the Bop. I also like the 12x8 and 14x13 tom sizes (more traditional).

Now, as far as the Manu Kanche Jr., I bought mine to specifically get a
1) 16" bass drum
2) Mine is a MIJ .... made back when Sakae was still making drums for Yamaha
3) It's freaking Screaming Yellow
4) I'm a Yamaha fan boy
5) It was a $415

I owned one of the original yellow Hip gig kits and they sound great but boy are they HEAVY when packed up . The throne padding is super thin and my sit bones got bruised . I could never get the toms and cymbals exactly where I wanted them using the included Tom and cymbal arms .

The current stage custom hip gig kits are awful !! Sorry if my opinion doesn’t reflect what the stage custom fanboy/girls think but I want to let people considering aware . The build quality stinks , the SNOM is terrible it can sound good as a ton or a snare - it doesn’t do both well . The tons are thin sounding, the bass drum has no depth . I took one of these to a gig and I knew before the first song ended I was selling it . My band mates hate the sound of it too . It sounds like a cheap set of drums .

I haven't forgotten the first time I sat behind and tapped around a then-new (silver) Manu Katche set.
in-store

Jasta 11 said:

I would take the older japanese made Manu

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Drums in Crafton, Pa.
I was quite shocked

What year would that have been? I believe there was the similar concept Sonor Jungle set -also just introduced- sitting right across from it

I had the manu katche model, the silver model with 16” kick on a built in riser (duck foot might be the name of that riser).

The build is fine but I remember the kick just didn’t have enough going for it and I’d received a Sakae pac D which I feel is a much better kit. So I sold the Yamaha. I actually kept the 12” snare because it was so much fun.

The rack Tom mount is closer to that of a rydeen or gig master than a stage custom because the hex arm goes through the shell, there is no YESS mount. While you can find a tuning to give it sustain it generally played a shorter note.

I own a stage custom but it’s not the hip model but honestly I’m not a fan of the sizes of the stage custom hip, I get the need for a compact bass drum but I think making toms that shallow, especially that rack Tom is a big compromise. I also have a tama club jam and the floor Tom is 14x7 and again I still haven’t found a tuning that sounds good - too shallow.

I have a silverstar bop, that is much better than the hip gig I had, I also owned a Questlove kit, I felt that it also sounded better than the hip gig.

As you can see I’ve owned a few compact kits. I would say avoid the cheaply made gimmicks that cut corners or have overly shallow shells. If you can simply find an 18” bass drum to match one of your pro kits I think that’s much wiser.

I bought a new old stock from a shop for 750 last year. Crazy.

Found matching hoops too.



It was top heavy but it sounded good, and fitted in my micro car so I was content.

The first Hipgig was released in 1999:




The last Marotta in 2009:


They sold well, especially in markets where housing and/or transportation was challenge.

The first Al Foster Signature (the Hip Gig Sr.), and Manu Katché were released in 2001:

I’ve played both - just set up in drum shops though so very brief. If you find an older Hipgig in good shape and fairly priced, grab it. Stage Custom Hip is great for the price though too.

Also.

Make sure you get the 2nd generation HG.

The 1st had the tom mount on the front part of the bass drum, which caused too much strain on the latches and shell connenction.

I owned the Al Foster Hip Gig Sr. and would STRONGLY advise against it from a portability perspective. It's SO heavy when all packed up, and it's not a notable improvement in footprint, either. You don't realize how important independent stands are until you're crammed into a corner and unable to set up half the kit because the build of the kit won't let you.

They sound good, but I don't think they're a good solution. I took mine on one gig and had to park a block away and haul the kit up two flights of stairs.

Now, the Hip Gig Junior? I love mine. It's a smaller kit with a smaller sound, but I've had nothing but praise from sound guys and normal people alike.

I haven't played the Stage Custom Hip.

It looks like the Manu kit isn't designed for Russian-dolling. The bass drum doesn't have a split center.

That combo of luan and birch is good. I think it's the same as the 8000 (Tour Customs in the '80s) had. The punch of birch plus some airy body too.

I really liked the 5 piece Manu Katche kits.

Mr. Burns said:

It looks like the Manu kit isn't designed for Russian-dolling. The bass drum doesn't have a split center.

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Correct. Original versions were Philippine Mahogany shells. Very warm. Came in 4 piece configuration. Newer reissue versions are 100% Birch shells, like the current Stage Customs.

Mr. Burns said:

That combo of luan and birch is good. I think it's the same as the 8000 (Tour Customs in the '80s) had. The punch of birch plus some airy body too.

Click to expand...

The Al Foster & Rick Marotta are indeed Birch/Philippine Mahogany. And I agree, it's a very nice balance of Birch and vintage tone.

DutchDrummersDreams said:

It was top heavy but it sounded good, and fitted in my micro car so I was content.

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I need to see this micro car

Thanks for the input - much appreciated!

So, zooming in a little on the Manu Katche, but keeping the old vs new element of the thread going:

I have found a grand total of one shell pack for sale here in the UK. It's one of the older MIJ ones (which is great!), very much 'used' condition but from the pics, nothing to worry about. But it is missing its snare - not a dealbreaker, but a shame I guess. I'm currently finding out if it's still for sale (often ads don't get taken down and lead to much false hope ).

I've also found the 'current' Manu Katche - the 5-piece, made in China etc. This is brand new, includes decent hardware, but at a comparative price to setups like the SC Hip and such. Anyone had any experience with these?

As a Yamaha fanboy, I would obviously prefer to have one MIJ, but have never had any reason to object to the Chinese made models. If anyone has experience/thoughts on the current Manu Katche, do let me know.

I'm basically looking for a compact kit with a decent sound and build. I loved my mate's Al Foster, but would prefer the dimensions of the Manu Katche. Nesting is not the critical thing. I'm also considering the Sonor offerings, will see how the sound/feel compares (if I ever manage to get my hands on a HG!).

DutchDrummersDreams said:

The first Hipgig was released in 1999:
View attachment 157835
View attachment 157836


The last Marotta in 2009:
View attachment 157837

They sold well, especially in markets where housing and/or transportation was challenge.

The first Al Foster Signature (the Hip Gig Sr.), and Manu Katché were released in 2001:
View attachment 157839

Click to expand...

Man, I really wish canister thrones were still a normal thing. Sure, I know you can get custom ones made or DIY or I believe DW makes one as well but I wish it was a more widely available thing. I typically only need a hi hat stand, snare stand, straight cymbal stand, and floor tom legs so for me a canister throne would be ideal.