Introducing a "non drummer"!!

J

JohnBassNYC

Member
Howdy all
I'm almost involuntarily "retired " ( I can't stand that idea ) ; but I still have plenty of music within me. Actually quite enthusiastic given fact I'm a multi instrumentalist since the mid sixties !
I guess I have two purposes here - like Jaco said "get me a gig" lol. Just kidding .
I'm a NYC Jersey transplant to sunny S cal.
1. I've played a handful of times with legendary drummers, usually in a nyc session scenario
2 I'm on a learning bender regarding rhythm . I'm naturally gifted with rhythm YET I've actually not thought about it that much .

Side note - I highly highly recommend Mike Longo's. The rhythmic nature of jazz- not easy to find. The 4 part series but highly recommended and by Hal Galper as well

Ok back to my goals
Dig this. Even though I know the song Mister Magic I was too lazy to learn those 5 hits toward the end of the song . So every time over the years. I would have to make an excuse to the players
Well I decided to learn it
And I admit it took me about 2 days ( about an hour and a half ) to get it in my head
I'm used to - as a bass player ( my session work was on elec bass ) playing steady grooves .
But those five hits. ( 2 eighths. One eighth up beat and two sixteenths )
Engage a different part of the musical being ( I don't know what to call it. So pardon my loose use of words here)
And it's a little chafing of the ego when you realize 'hey, this is taking me longer than I expected ' !

I thought about it tnis way. See if you concur
I perceive rhythm in at least two ( not well defined ) ways
As notation
And "internally ". You know your natural talent for grasping rhythm .
We are all born with varying degrees of natural affinity for rhythm. As in all things

So my gift for quickly "apprehending" ( that's the best description for it ) broken up syncopations eg mister magic. Is not as high as my gift for playing within a groove.
Are you with me on this ?

So there are two parts - maybe more ! - to tnis grasping of rhythms.

My talent was is such that maybe once once or twice I got to play within legendary drummers
Maybe another thread about that unique experience

But 50 freakin years of non stop gigs and then a few days to assimilate those 5 hits !!
Do follow that ?
Our musical talents are spread out among a wide variety of micro abilities is my assumption

Ok. I'm talkative - sorry.
I want aids to learning rhythms not bossa salsa waltz om pah pah Dixie land. Be bop no
The other aspect of rhythm mentioned above
It's really a different skill

I'm thinking you cats must use digital technology to aid in your osmosis of rhythm

Btw even though Richard Tee ( who I recorded with ages ago ) and Victor Wooten advocate using a metronome. I recommend ALSO learning how NOT to use the metronome to develop your grooves

Thanks if you actually waded through all of my word salad
 
JohnBassNYC said:
And it's a little chafing of the ego when you realize 'hey, this is taking me longer than I expected ' !
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Welcome to the chafing. Some of us chafe every day. 😅

Let us know some of the tunes you've recorded on.

FYI, I lived in San Diego until 1986, and worked in New York City a few times. No comparison, IMO. I hope you like SoCal.

Edit: The Drum Flip is in Vista. A great place to check out drum gear.
 
Welcome to the circus!!

Non-native drummer here as well. I've come at it rather late after a long career fronting bands and doing solo singer/songwriter stuff.

I thought I'd master drums in a few short years... oh the hubris... Got my ego bitch-slapped too many times to count :LOL:

Sorry I can't help you much with jazz and/or deciphering complex rythms since I'm basically self taught and I quickly get lost if I venture too far past Meat & Potato Town...

All the best in your rythmic quest, some very knowledgeable guys will soon take over to sheppard you towards disambiguation ;-)
 
👍😀
Handle Scal ! The first time I moved out . I handled it for 4 years and then returned to 3 miles from Lincoln Tunnel on the much less expensive Jersey side . Musicians were already exiting the too expensive nyc rents to Brooklyn and Jersey

I played with Deodato. In mid seventies Left for S cal
Couldn't take it- then back to nyc. But the the crime in 1990 in nyc ( google the murder rate 2200 deaths !) was thru the roof. Unsafe even in the day time. Crack epidemic I guess.
5 jazz musicians I knew were "packing heat" at that time !!
Jazz musicians not rappers ! Either I carry a gun or leave I left .
I had to exit nyc for the last time and
I was lucky I could return to California with my tail between my legs
I've worked non stop since I started- up until 2 years ago when I did the unthinkable and acquired a day gig!!
A serious jazz player from east coast put the idea in my. A Security guard !! Yup , that's what I do now ! How undignified. Not really. It's life. But after selling my 63 jazz bass. And getting a cheap bass
I'm getting very excited about music again. Learning it and performing .
The day gig takes pressure off duh!
I recorded the second Deodato album then a handful more afterwards
Skyscrapers. Havana Strut Moonlight Serenade etc
As a super experienced person I'm wishing I could translate that into helping others -
But in mean time,

I want to "study rhythm ". Kind of a vague idea !
That long avoided Mr magic break was inspiration to wake up.
You drummers are wholly immersed in rhythm. So I'm putting it to you guys and gals to make suggestions for digital means or not for how you deal with rhythms . Not so much steady grooves but I don't know what to call it. Like those 5 hits on Mister Magic. It's part of the groove absolutely but it's still I different process to learn them readily . My opinion anyway.

I was never a great reader in the studio. Luckily bass parts then were mercifully not bass clef with too much"information ".
I marveled at horn players in sections nailing parts first take.
But let me say this
If you don't have what it takes in rhythm section to make it feel really good immediately. You would never be called back

I was always, who knows, third string. But I did it for 20 years And always with the top rhythm players And when Chuck Rainey or Stanley or Tony Levin or Later Marcus or Will Lee or Neil Jason etc etc were too busy. There was little old me!
 
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How can it put one of these quotes in an avatar here. It's that important
Think positively about self. Given enough time we can do it and surprise self too

The Malcolm Gladwell quote about 10000 hours of practice is wonderful. But to reach where "Bach or Mozart or Bird lived" will take much more than 10,000 hours. It's lifetimes. So relax and enjoy the transformation !

"I adopted the theory of reincarnation when I was 26. Genius is experience. Some seem to think that is is a gift or talent, but it is the fruit of long experience in many lives. Henry Ford

I adopted the theory of reincarnation when I was 26. Religion offered nothing to the point. Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we cannot utilize the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation … time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock. I would like to communicate to others the calmness that the long view of life gives us. Henry Ford

“I am in exact accord with the belief of Thomas Edison that Spirit is immortal, that there is a continuing center of character in each personality. But I don’t know what spirit is, nor matter either. I suspect they are forms of the same thing. I never could see anything in this reputed antagonism between spirit and matter. To me this is the most beautiful, the most satisfactory from a scientific standpoint, the most logical theory of life.”

Henry Ford
 
DamnSingerAlsoDrums said:
Because I DID NOT play with Deodato ;-)

Kudos on the sweet gig (y)

Man! Also Spracth Zarathustra has been a stapple on my record player for decades. And I'll put it on the moment I need some "victory muusic" in my life... ;)
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That 2001 bassist is Stanley Clarke.
I recorded it later in a concert at felt forum , and I'm ashamed to say I didn't tune up. And being in such a huge space disoriented my perception of pitch. I never listen to it .
 
JohnBassNYC said:
That 2001 bassist is Stanley Clarke.
I recorded it later in a concert at felt forum , and I'm ashamed to say I didn't tune up. And being in such a huge space disoriented my perception of pitch. I never listen to it .
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I knew Cobham played drums on this, didn't Know Clarke was on bass.

Don't fret (pun intended) about your tuning on an older live album. Pretty much every recordings from the 60's and 70's have some degree of intonation looseness.

In any case, I'm still going to check your version out. ;-)
 
Thank you

The thing is one of thr 2 trumpet players ( I saw him on SNL - a big band guy and a session guy ) was angry at me for being out of tune !
I still recall that. Not much else !
We humans are curious beings .:: I'm recalling an annoyed trumpet player ! And don't want to listen to the bass part !
However recently I surprised myself and did listen. To a song called Havana Strut with a kick ass trombonist Sam Burtiss. I believe from Boston. But he lived somewhere in the vicinity of nyc

The thing with me I'm always comparing myself to the best players in the world. Hard to feel good about stuff when your standard is world class !!
James Jamerson. Chuck Rainey Will Lee Marcus Jaco Paul Jackson ( headhunters Herbie Hancocks bassist ) Verdine white - Willie Weeks. Pino - those are my standards !
 
JohnBassNYC said:
Thank you

The thing is one of thr 2 trumpet players ( I saw him on SNL - a big band guy and a session guy ) was angry at me for being out of tune !
I still recall that. Not much else !
We humans are curious beings .:: I'm recalling an annoyed trumpet player ! And don't want to listen to the bass part !
However recently I surprised myself and did listen. To a song called Havana Strut with a kick ass trombonist Sam Burtiss. I believe from Boston. But he lived somewhere in the vicinity of nyc

The thing with me I'm always comparing myself to the best players in the world. Hard to feel good about stuff when your standard is world class !!
James Jamerson. Chuck Rainey Will Lee Marcus Jaco Paul Jackson ( headhunters Herbie Hancocks bassist ) Verdine white - Willie Weeks. Pino - those are my standards !
Click to expand...
Man, listening right now and it sounds absolutely bitchin'.

Forget that trumpet player. Everything sounds organic as it shoud.
 
JohnBassNYC said:
I want to "study rhythm ". Kind of a vague idea !
That long avoided Mr magic break was inspiration to wake up.
You drummers are wholly immersed in rhythm. So I'm putting it to you guys and gals to make suggestions for digital means or not for how you deal with rhythms . Not so much steady grooves but I don't know what to call it. Like those 5 hits on Mister Magic. It's part of the groove absolutely but it's still I different process to learn them readily . My opinion anyway.
Click to expand...
Welcome John. My turn to recommendation for anyone wanting to get a handle on those various 1/8th and 16th rhythms is "Haskell Harr Drum Method Book 1". There are other things that are more intense, tricky and involved. But I find that most folks struggling with those types of rhythms don't have the real foundational stuff down. Which is too bad, because most music (even pretty advanced stuff) is comprised almost entirely of the rhythms covered in this basic book.

So that would be my recommendation.
 
JohnBassNYC said:
That 2001 bassist is Stanley Clarke.
I recorded it later in a concert at felt forum , and I'm ashamed to say I didn't tune up. And being in such a huge space disoriented my perception of pitch. I never listen to it .
Click to expand...
I forgot Stanley Clarke was on that album. As well as Ron Carter. The credits seem to imply that Carter played the acoustic bass solo stuff on 2001.... though I'm not doubting that you've been in the position to know the actual truth of the situation.
 
Ron Carter - one of our icons. Yes yes I don't listen to it. ( 2001 ) but suddenly I hear that interlude solo in my mind. And I think you are correct. Sounds like Ron Carter indeed
 
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