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Dealing with drunks and odd people at gigs

sitting in on drums you will either be better than the bands drummer which is not good or worse which is also not good so why ask? if someone wanted to sit in on Summer Wind what the hell is the point? I did yell a a big guy, local wealthy guy who pushes people around and gets his way. he was pressing my guitar player to let this "superstar plater" sit in. he came up grabbed the mic and started to call the gy over. i had enough at this point, it was the second consecutive gig of the same from him, so i stood up and yelled " if hes so good why isnt he out playing in a band, this is our 4th gig this week, wgat he been doing"...he shut up and never came back. he looked shocked, his stature had no effect one me!
 
I think the general policy is that no one is sitting in simply because the venue hired my band to play. Anything that deviates from what the venue is paying for is going to be a no-go as far as we’re concerned. Of course, dealing with non-inebriated people this is easy. When faced with a drunk or perhaps mentally unstable people, if they don’t stop badgering after you being polite, then it’s time to tell the venue you need security and they should handle it.

I honestly no longer “get” why people want to sit in. The situation has changed over the last 20 years or so. Venue owners hire bands so they have good live entertainment to keep people there drinking, dancing, and/or eating. Once you let someone sit-in, unless it’s somebody you know (or the owner) knows is really good, you’re just allowing an X-factor to happen. I’ve seen bands let people play and sometimes it got so bad, people stopped dancing, and worse, people began to leave, and lotsa times the band couldn’t recover and eventually gets fired - because your whole job is to keep people there so they’re drinking, dancing, and eating. So either the venue makes it a policy to just have the hired band play, or the band makes it a personal policy amongst themselves, that usually keeps it professional and people can see that.
 
I think it's very simple: the live band experience awakens the Dunning-Kruger in lots of people. They see a band playing and drawing attention and applause and it occurs to them, "Hey, I can do that, and take in all that adulation!"

Truthfully, I have done that once or twice, but they were songs I knew cold and I knew I wouldn't mess anything up. I think both times the drummer went up to get a drink. That was a long time ago, and I won't do it now. Sometimes, I decline even if it's offered to me.


Dan
 
On Saturday I had a similar situation. A drunk guy started shouting that he used to play drums and could "sit in". The guitar player knew him and was embarrassed. He replied "go ask the drummer". I shook my head and said "no". That's all it took.

We've been practicing for months and working very hard. Why on Earth would I hand my sticks over to a drunk guy I don't even know. Ain't gonna happen.

Being much bigger than him and stone cold sober, I had a definite advantage. I refuse to let anyone touch my thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
 
Bo Eder said:
I think the general policy is that no one is sitting in simply because the venue hired my band to play. Anything that deviates from what the venue is paying for is going to be a no-go as far as we’re concerned. Of course, dealing with non-inebriated people this is easy. When faced with a drunk or perhaps mentally unstable people, if they don’t stop badgering after you being polite, then it’s time to tell the venue you need security and they should handle it.

I honestly no longer “get” why people want to sit in. The situation has changed over the last 20 years or so. Venue owners hire bands so they have good live entertainment to keep people there drinking, dancing, and/or eating. Once you let someone sit-in, unless it’s somebody you know (or the owner) knows is really good, you’re just allowing an X-factor to happen. I’ve seen bands let people play and sometimes it got so bad, people stopped dancing, and worse, people began to leave, and lotsa times the band couldn’t recover and eventually gets fired - because your whole job is to keep people there so they’re drinking, dancing, and eating. So either the venue makes it a policy to just have the hired band play, or the band makes it a personal policy amongst themselves, that usually keeps it professional and people can see that.
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Bo, this happened to a band I was in years ago. The guitarist let some no-talent sit in on harp during the first set. He was so bad, people got up and left. The owner was sitting there watching dollar signs walking out his door. At the end of the night, we were invited to never return.
 
BobC said:
Bo, this happened to a band I was in years ago. The guitarist let some no-talent sit in on harp during the first set. He was so bad, people got up and left. The owner was sitting there watching dollar signs walking out his door. At the end of the night, we were invited to never return.
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It’s a tough lesson to see but bands have to be professional when dealing with a business that’s making money. I sub for Bermuda and even when I visit him with the band and he offers me to sit in, I decline. I’m not there to play, I’m there to see him with the band. Playing for pay is NOT a backyard party where you let friends sit in and play with the band. When you’re first starting out tell your friends that it’s not policy they automatically get to play if they show up. If you can handle that, taking care of a belligerent drunk or people who feel entitled to sit in should be a lot easier.
 
Jasta 11 said:
sitting in on drums you will either be better than the bands drummer which is not good or worse which is also not good so why ask? if someone wanted to sit in on Summer Wind what the hell is the point? I did yell a a big guy, local wealthy guy who pushes people around and gets his way. he was pressing my guitar player to let this "superstar plater" sit in. he came up grabbed the mic and started to call the gy over. i had enough at this point, it was the second consecutive gig of the same from him, so i stood up and yelled " if hes so good why isnt he out playing in a band, this is our 4th gig this week, wgat he been doing"...he shut up and never came back. he looked shocked, his stature had no effect one me!
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20240520-104759.jpg
 
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Bo Eder said:
It’s a tough lesson to see but bands have to be professional when dealing with a business that’s making money. I sub for Bermuda and even when I visit him with the band and he offers me to sit in, I decline. I’m not there to play, I’m there to see him with the band. Playing for pay is NOT a backyard party where you let friends sit in and play with the band. When you’re first starting out tell your friends that it’s not policy they automatically get to play if they show up. If you can handle that, taking care of a belligerent drunk or people who feel entitled to sit in should be a lot easier.
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Except for highly unusual circumstances, letting anyone on stage is a bad idea and rarely ends well. You really don't want to go down the road of becoming a "open mic night jam band".

Like you mention, allowing friends to perform is the first mistake. It sets the standard. Others see what's going on. Before you know it, random strangers and drunks think it's "their turn".

I don't go through all the work of being in a band just to open up the door to random people to perform on my equipment. I have no problem telling people "no". I don't give a reason, an explanation or offer an apology. It's just a firm "no".
 
Jasta 11 said:
sitting in on drums you will either be better than the bands drummer which is not good or worse which is also not good so why ask? if someone wanted to sit in on Summer Wind what the hell is the point? I did yell a a big guy, local wealthy guy who pushes people around and gets his way. he was pressing my guitar player to let this "superstar plater" sit in. he came up grabbed the mic and started to call the gy over. i had enough at this point, it was the second consecutive gig of the same from him, so i stood up and yelled " if hes so good why isnt he out playing in a band, this is our 4th gig this week, wgat he been doing"...he shut up and never came back. he looked shocked, his stature had no effect one me!
Click to expand...

Good for you. I won't put up with that nonsense either. You did well by shutting them down in public, over the PA with a little volume. Nothing is ruder than stepping up and "grabbing the mic". Once someone crosses that line, they should expect a nuclear response from the band. You delivered.

There are reasons why many of these "superstar" musicians aren't in bands. It's because they lack talent, work ethic or the ability to get along with others. The only thing they bring to the table is an entitlement attitude.
 
Bo Eder said:
I think the general policy is that no one is sitting in simply because the venue hired my band to play. Anything that deviates from what the venue is paying for is going to be a no-go as far as we’re concerned. Of course, dealing with non-inebriated people this is easy. When faced with a drunk or perhaps mentally unstable people, if they don’t stop badgering after you being polite, then it’s time to tell the venue you need security and they should handle it.

I honestly no longer “get” why people want to sit in. The situation has changed over the last 20 years or so. Venue owners hire bands so they have good live entertainment to keep people there drinking, dancing, and/or eating. Once you let someone sit-in, unless it’s somebody you know (or the owner) knows is really good, you’re just allowing an X-factor to happen. I’ve seen bands let people play and sometimes it got so bad, people stopped dancing, and worse, people began to leave, and lotsa times the band couldn’t recover and eventually gets fired - because your whole job is to keep people there so they’re drinking, dancing, and eating. So either the venue makes it a policy to just have the hired band play, or the band makes it a personal policy amongst themselves, that usually keeps it professional and people can see that.
Click to expand...
I look at it as ego-maniacs that think it's all about them and they wanna be a rockstar (alcohol only makes this worse!). As we all know we're beating the chicks off with a stick on the way to the limo after the gig while our road crew pack everything away ;)

It's funny how you never see someone go up to road workers and say can a sit in on your road drill of have a go on your digger or a surgeon and say hey I dissected a frog in school, can I sit in on this operation.
 
I have a slight twist on this one as we regularly have a woman who gets on stage - but only to dance up close to the bass player - and I mean up CLOSE.
The trouble is she is very distracting and he messes up his parts. She trips over cables and bashes in to the singer and is generally a p.i.t.a
I've made it very clear it's not on but she knows I can't actually get up from behind the kit and get rid of her. The bass player is too nice to tell her and maybe he even likes the attention a bit. I keep telling him his wife won't if a video ever gets posted on FB though!
 
Bo Eder said:
It’s a tough lesson to see but bands have to be professional when dealing with a business that’s making money. I sub for Bermuda and even when I visit him with the band and he offers me to sit in, I decline. I’m not there to play, I’m there to see him with the band. Playing for pay is NOT a backyard party where you let friends sit in and play with the band. When you’re first starting out tell your friends that it’s not policy they automatically get to play if they show up. If you can handle that, taking care of a belligerent drunk or people who feel entitled to sit in should be a lot easier.
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You're right. When the guitarist let this clown come up and play harp, I was sitting behind the drums saying, "NO! What are you doing? We don't know if he's any good." He wasn't, and we lost the gig.
 
Suburbankidz said:
Any tips on handling or stopping something that seems to be escalating into a weird zone of conversation or behavior?
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Avoidance.

Here's what I do - I don't have conversations with anyone. I'm nice, smile, and I'm cordial. Beyond that, I'm there to do a job. When we have breaks, I go outside or to my car, and I tell the band to text me when they are ready to go back up or have a designated time set to return and play. If you are worried about your kit, then take your stick bag with you. If it's one of those situations where you can't go to your car or outside during a break, go pick a table by yourself, and play on your phone. No eye contact usually equals no conversations with anyone.

If someone starts bugging you while you are tearing down and loading out, make them start carrying stuff to the car, and start with the hardware case. That will usually deter them. If it doesn't, then your stuff gets to your car twice as fast, and you can get out of there.

Also, here's the thing: I'm a big dude, and being a big dude is like having a pickup truck - no one wants anything to do with you until it's time to move some furniture. I use the "I don't want to talk to the big guy" mindset to my advantage. I've learned to play to my strengths.
 
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PorkPieGuy said:
Avoidance.

Here's what I do - I don't have conversations with anyone. I'm nice, smile, and I'm cordial. Beyond that, I'm there to do a job. When we have breaks, I go outside or to my car, and I tell the band to text me when they are ready to go back up or have a designated time set to return and play. If you are worried about your kit, then take your stick bag with you. If it's one of those situations where you can't go to your car or outside during a break, go pick a table by yourself, and play on your phone. No eye contact usually equals no conversations with anyone.

If someone starts bugging you while you are tearing down and loading out, make them start carrying stuff to the car, and start with the hardware case. That will usually deter them. If it doesn't, then your stuff gets to your car twice as fast, and you can get out of there.

Also, here's the thing: I'm a big dude, and being a big dude is like having a pickup truck - no one wants anything to do with you until it's time to move some furniture.
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I like the way you work!

I hide my stick bag and stool when I'm not near the kit. If anyone is silly enough to mess with the kit when I'm not there I just pack it down to kick, snare, hats and ride and play one handed. Play silly games, win silly prizes.

Now I'm a big guy too, it deters the blokes but drunken women and drum kits are a match made in hell. I need to incorporate more prog rock into my set. It's the only thing guaranteed to scare women away ;)
 
I wouldn't let anyone sit in unless you actually wanted them to. Drunks are extremely unpredictable. Best to be polite as you can to a point. But let the venue handle security if you can. It sounds like you handled it well. There's strength in numbers. I used to work security at the old Boston Garden and for every 1 malcontent we'd send 3 guys to handle it. Rules would change for certain events like when the hated Canadians were in town or wrestling events. Believe it or not the worst event I ever worked security for was New Kids On The Block. 15,000 yelling screaming crying 13 year old girls. I've never been sworn at more in my life. I thought they were going rip me to shreds!😳.
 
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A J said:
Except for highly unusual circumstances, letting anyone on stage is a bad idea and rarely ends well. You really don't want to go down the road of becoming a "open mic night jam band".

Like you mention, allowing friends to perform is the first mistake. It sets the standard. Others see what's going on. Before you know it, random strangers and drunks think it's "their turn".

I don't go through all the work of being in a band just to open up the door to random people to perform on my equipment. I have no problem telling people "no". I don't give a reason, an explanation or offer an apology. It's just a firm "no".
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I played a rock n roll dive years ago and some guy came up to me showing a picture of Michael Anthony of Van Halen, tells me that’s his cousin, then says, “can I jam on your drums?” I told him “I’m having trouble making the connection here, so no” and walked away. I never saw that guy again anywhere 😂😂😂
 
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mikyok said:
I look at it as ego-maniacs that think it's all about them and they wanna be a rockstar (alcohol only makes this worse!). As we all know we're beating the chicks off with a stick on the way to the limo after the gig while our road crew pack everything away ;)

It's funny how you never see someone go up to road workers and say can a sit in on your road drill of have a go on your digger or a surgeon and say hey I dissected a frog in school, can I sit in on this operation.
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One day I’m gonna get my hands on one of those Bobcat diggers and move some dirt around - it’s a dirty little secret I’ve held to since I was a kid.
 
BobC said:
You're right. When the guitarist let this clown come up and play harp, I was sitting behind the drums saying, "NO! What are you doing? We don't know if he's any good." He wasn't, and we lost the gig.
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It’s really a very fine line too. Sometimes people sit-in and it ends up being awesome, especially the closer to Los Angeles you get. I subbed for a buddy at some bar in West LA years ago and this studio cat was friends with the guitar player (I forget his name) and he was in the Lee Ritenour level of player, and everything he did was cool. But he only stayed on stage for two songs and politely handed it back to our band leader. That was the only instance that was positive in the 40 years I’ve been gigging!
 
so, being an anti-drinking,smoking,drugs guy, and an introvert...bars and clubs are my worst nightmare for this very reason....

all of my playing life, I am the guy who loads in quickly, gets my stuff set up, and then hides in the green room, or some dark corner of the place. I tell freinds who are coming to gigs that I will talk after the set. If there is not a backroom to hide in, I will run the merch spot, and "hide" there. This allows me to avoid most interactions with drunks and wierdo's, or at least lets me cut off those convo's to sell stuff.

playing in punk and metal dives most of my life, there has always been shifty, and downright dangerous characters in the clubs, and I got real good at reading body language/dress/facial features, and proximity things. Being (usually) the only sober one at the end of a show, I also had to sort of be secutiry/babysitter/defense, which REALLLY put me out of my comfort zone. I learned that a very quick and forcefull "NO" OR "WE'RE BUSY" cut off a lot of possible skirmishes; also having a big scary knife helps

defender2 copy.jpg

this usually really cleared out back alley ways or idiots at load out. Never used it, but had to pull it 3-4 times to make a point....

I have a rally short fuse with drunks, and would tell them to just get the f#$^k away if they were babbling nonsense and real close. I didn't care about burning a bridge or losing a friendship there. I think I was never a "scenester' because of this....🤷‍♂️. If you are sober, lets talk!!! If not, I don't care....
 
Unless the band itself proclaim that people are welcome on stage to play a song or two, or it's specifically a jam night with that sole purpose, I don't really get the mentality, nor have seen it as a problem with people wanting to sit in all the time. Maybe I've been in the original music scene too long to notice it... To handle drunks before/after the gig is another thing though, but my band usually hang out together so I don't think I've ever needed to handle it strictly on my own. Usually its enough with "sorry, but I have to attend to something over there, see you around".
 
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