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Solving Paiste for jazz

jda said:
I had a good amount of Dark Sound Creations.
One day I decided to set up every one of my
high school 'A's and do a contrast comparison.
All the A's were lower in pitch and more powerful .
Paiste
post- Twentys that's changed.
Prior they inherently had a lot of highs
an inordinate amount my view for some musics
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I have a Sound Creation Dark crash. Doesn’t really live up to its name.

I started with Paiste on Sound Formula in the early 90s. B15 always seems to suit me. Play a lot of Signatures now.

I tried some early Twentys but they didn’t seem Paiste enough for me, later found out they were mostly Diril DNA. Only kept the splash.

Rough Ride can beat you up in the treble department but it’s all in how you play it.
 
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brady said:
I'm a 602 fan...

My typical jazz setup is 14" preserial 602 hats, 20" 602 Medium Flat Ride, and a 20" 602 ME or 20" Signature Dry Crisp Ride.

I've also used a 22" Big Beat just to mix things up.
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Love a 602. They can do it all. Don’t have any 602 hats at the moment but would never give up my Paper Thins or Heavy Ride. A full complement of Blue Labels does something for me deep inside. First real cymbals I ever got to play on were shiny new Blue Labels that belonged to an older friend. The vibe is still in my head 40 years later.
 
jda said:
pre- Twentys and post-Twentys
pre-Twentys they had were happy with what 6-7 lines B20 Sound Creations, 602s, B8 B15 etc

then was an acquiescence that.. avoiding or ignoring "Turkish" "dirty B20" (as some call it) - couldn't be avoided was a bad move in the Sales in the marketplace (spurred on by Meinl' rapid sales success with Byzance + in sales maybe)

So when Paiste Masters are touted today it's a bit of an inside chuckle as Paiste resisted and tried different avenues (Sound Creations) before succumbing to the dirty Turkish sound

First time I hit (a kid had on his set) a Paiste Twenty 18" it was, it responded and sounded similar to one of my 18" old K.

Transformation; acquiescence;
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My Masters Swish is so clean I have my lunch on it. Hard to believe it is dirty B20!
 
"they try and get the bad molecules out" 😉
and leave the high elevation crystal Alp Air in ..
(over the years I've purchased (and gigged) many Paistes (hard to believe huh) still have 6 pre serial 602s only series haven't owned Masters and Twentys
My favorite "back then" was a 20" Sound Creation Dark Medium.
(had the most "dirt: 😁 but old Ks and Old A's Istanbuls and later newer bosphorus intervened
Ground level (nearer the dirt..err earth..
 
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brady said:
I'm a 602 fan...

My typical jazz setup is 14" preserial 602 hats, 20" 602 Medium Flat Ride, and a 20" 602 ME or 20" Signature Dry Crisp Ride.

I've also used a 22" Big Beat just to mix things up.
Click to expand...
The 2002 Big Beat ride for jazz? It wasn’t too bright?
 
brady said:
Not at all. It can get a bit washy though, but not overpowering. Otherwise, it's a nice, fairly dark sound.
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Right on! I have a 19” Big Beat. It is darker and more complex than I would expect it to be. Kinda cool Paiste could wrangle that type of thing of of B8!
 
Level42 said:
I don’t play a lot of traditional jazz, I’m much more of a fusion guy but when I do occasionally get a call for a trad gig, I’ve always just used my Ks by default because that’s what you’re supposed to use, right?

A few years ago I switched from Z to Paiste for my main gig, which I have been thrilled with. Recently got an opportunity on an upcoming trad gig which I am very excited for but it got me thinking about my Paistes. I have a lot of them. What could I make work? Could I find anything in my arsenal that would give me the complexity of the Ks with the clean Paiste shimmer on top?

I think I did it. The hats were the hardest part. An unlikely candidate fit the bill perfectly. Here’s where I landed:

15” Giant Beat hats
20” Signature Traditional Thin Crash
22” Signature Rough Ride
22” Masters Swish

Loving the setup. Excited to get it on a gig!

Who’s using Paiste for jazz?

View attachment 150117
View attachment 150118
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Where is your flat ride?
 
Level42 said:
Haha, I never could really get with the flats. I like a bell. And now a 602 flat is $700! What to heck?
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I bought an older used one for just a few $hundred. Playing/ comping behind keys it's perfect. I use it other times, too, behind other instrument solos. Just depends on what ride I started with on solos.
 
I agree with Giant Beat and Formula 602. The Masters and Sig. Traditionals sound a bit thin and clean to me, but I may have picked the wrong models.
 
Iristone said:
I agree with Giant Beat and Formula 602. The Masters and Sig. Traditionals sound a bit thin and clean to me, but I may have picked the wrong models.
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I could easily roll with just my 24” Giant beat on any gig and make it work for sure.

I haven’t played a ton of Masters cymbals, the one I’ve kept is the Masters Swish which is a dandy. The few other Masters I’ve had sounded like they kinda wanted to be Zildjians, or at least Sabians. They were definitely crashing the family reunion.

I love Signatures and I have a lot of them. The clean is where they live for sure. That being said, the Rough Ride is the weird Signature cousin that doesn’t bathe probably doesn’t get invited to many parties but we are getting along nicely. This 20” Signature Traditional is dark and wooly. Still has a bit of that clean top end. I need to throw the Giant Beat or Big Beat into the mix this weekend and see how they hang.
 
Got a few other random Swiss rolls out today to see what they want to do.

The 19” Big Beat was different than I expected. It really loves brushes. Just wonderful response, dark shimmery crash, sweet definition, nice bell. A bit heavier and louder than what I am looking for on a trad jazz gig but on a folk or Americana gig with brushes, it would be a leadoff hitter.

20240914_144617 Large.png

The real MVP is the 19” Rude Thin. Slightly dark and dry but with a touch of crisp and clean top end, opens up and speaks quickly as a crash, nice definition as a light ride, solid bell, not too loud. The rattle chain elevates it to a real contender.

20240914_144913 Large.png
 
Level42 said:
I don’t play a lot of traditional jazz, I’m much more of a fusion guy but when I do occasionally get a call for a trad gig, I’ve always just used my Ks by default because that’s what you’re supposed to use, right?

A few years ago I switched from Z to Paiste for my main gig, which I have been thrilled with. Recently got an opportunity on an upcoming trad gig which I am very excited for but it got me thinking about my Paistes. I have a lot of them. What could I make work? Could I find anything in my arsenal that would give me the complexity of the Ks with the clean Paiste shimmer on top?

I think I did it. The hats were the hardest part. An unlikely candidate fit the bill perfectly. Here’s where I landed:

15” Giant Beat hats
20” Signature Traditional Thin Crash
22” Signature Rough Ride
22” Masters Swish

Loving the setup. Excited to get it on a gig!

Who’s using Paiste for jazz?

View attachment 150117
View attachment 150118
Click to expand...
Very cool! I’m curious, what made you steer away from the Masters line? That’s the first line I think of with Paiste and jazz. I have a set of Masters and they are fantastic.
 
Chunkaway said:
Very cool! I’m curious, what made you steer away from the Masters line? That’s the first line I think of with Paiste and jazz. I have a set of Masters and they are fantastic.
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I wouldn’t say anything has steered me away from the Masters, , but nothing yet has led me to them. I love my Masters swish and it is a lifetime keeper. I’m at least 8 hours drive from a shop that would even have a Masters cymbal so I am relegated to online. I bought two other Masters that I didn’t keep. Wasn’t thinking of them in a trad jazz context, more of a fusion/funk context. Both were “20, a Dark ride and a Dark crash. They seemed like they wanted to hang with my Ks but couldn’t quite speak the language. Like a K wearing a Paiste Halloween costume maybe. Just didn’t do it for me. The Masters I keep hearing that I want to try next is the Dry ride. Every time I hear a vid of someone playing one of those I think that is a sound I could hang with. What models are you using?

My other factor is that I own about 40 Signatures/Giant Beat/602/a few others so I wanted to see what I could put together with existing inventory.
 
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I in 2020 bought 9 vintage 602 all had a little chippy on them.
Bought knowing that on purpose (cheap...)
So I enjoyed my revisiting of Paistes
Went out with a Chip

Still have 3-14s 1-18 1-19 and 1-18 China
22" with a flap and 18" Flat with a Flap sold to a local pro drummer
who auditioned them in person
 
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