Are heel-toe and slide bass drum technique the same thing?

JimmyM said:

Seems to me a lot of players good at heel toe and sliding use longboards, yet I have been told you can learn to do it on anything. But sometimes I see vids of players with longboards and it really does look like the motions with the heel are easier to execute for them. Is there anything to that or am I making a pathetic excuse?

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Well the video in post #4 addresses that specific point, and seems to show that you don't need the long board.

I can't do the technique on anything though!

(Yet...)

JimmyM said:

Seems to me a lot of players good at heel toe and sliding use longboards, yet I have been told you can learn to do it on anything. But sometimes I see vids of players with longboards and it really does look like the motions with the heel are easier to execute for them. Is there anything to that or am I making a pathetic excuse?

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The pedal type probably doesn't matter much for slide, but I think longboards work better for heel toe because of the missing heel plate and they also tend to have a lower angle which is more comfortable for bringing your foot down flat on the first stroke.

If you look at even the Drumeo video's of Jared Falk demo'ing the technique, his foot is 'too big' for the pedal and his heel hits the back plate on the 'heel' stroke. The back plate isn't even part of the footboard, yet he's still able to do the technique.

T-1000 said:

If you look at even the Drumeo video's of Jared Falk demo'ing the technique, his foot is 'too big' for the pedal and his heel hits the back plate on the 'heel' stroke. The back plate isn't even part of the footboard, yet he's still able to do the technique.

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Seen it, but I still can't help but to think it could possibly make it easier for me to go long.

Lots of good informations here!
I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll share my opinion based on my personal experience. I dedicated quite some time developing my foot technique and I thought about this exact subject so many times.
The two techniques are different from each other but somehow can look similar, so it's not easy to see the difference sometimes. Every person develops some kind of a personal way to execute them based mainly on body genetics and comfort. Some are more prone specifically to one of them, some others find some kind of an hybrid between the two or do something completely different from both. There's so much going on when it comes to foot technique, it's fascinating.
I practiced both and theoretically I prefer heel-toe just because I don't like the idea of moving my right foot back and forth. Pratically, I developed my personal way to execute double strokes which I'm not sure how to call it, but I guess it's a mix of the two which works with ANY pedal.

If you try to execute the slide technique doing a little tap with your toe and then letting your whole leg fall down (instead of sliding the toe forward), you'll see your foot going slightly forward anyway, it's physics. So it can look like a slide but it's more like an inverted heel-toe ("toe-heel"?). I also want to point out that the "heel" strike doesn't necessarely need to be executed with the heel, you can still do that without touching the pedal. So....
Is toe-heel still heel-toe?
Is toe-heel a variation of the slide?

My suggestion would be to practice both heel-toe and "toe-heel" (if it's even exists) and play with accents, because imho it's all about the accents and the proper technique to highlight them.
Slide is also very effective, very fast and more natural to execute (imho), but like I said I prefer to rely on foot stability and move it as less as possible.
Practice all of them and find your way.

Those of you who do TRIPLE strokes how do you describe your technique?
Mine needs work. I sorta slide when it works and dynamics are poor.

For triple strokes I do two quick ankle taps and then let the foot fall down, some kind of toe-toe-heel. Like I said before the heel doesn't necessarely need to touch the pedal, it's just a movement to isolate different muscles for that specific movement. Some people use a wider range of motion while others tend to keep the foot as steady as possible.
You can also think this movement as a tap-tap-slide if you prefer the slide technique. The result is pretty much the same, you think about going forward with your foot instead of letting it fall down for the last stroke.

In general, I've also struggled with dynamics while doing these kind of quick strokes because I lacked control over pedal rebound. Using the slide technique wasn't working for me so I tried heel-toe and it felt somehow easier. It's still a work in progress but it's definitely doable with time, practice and patience.

Ok, thanks. I'll try that.
I've been trying a toe-toe-toe pressure thing.
It wants to do an all ankle quad or alternating with 5s but it's a little slower result, of course.

Try the swivel technique, it's amazing for multiple quick toe taps but it takes some time to understand the movement, depending on the person. It's definitely usable for double strokes too. My teacher use it pretty often and said many times it's easier to control at low volumes. He just point his toe slightly towards the other foot creating a little angle, does the first ankle tap and then slide the foot back in the center for the second stroke. The movement can be very tiny and quick with pretty good volume. It tends to stress my ankle a little bit over time, so I'm not using it often.

I'll try it. My right does a sort of swivel but it's a more exaggerated version than the pure technique you're supposed to use. I could train it to tighten up instead of moving all th way across the pedal side to side.
Thank you.

T-1000 said:

Could the slide technique on the bass drum be viewed as heel-toe but starting with the toe stroke and finishing with the heel stroke?

Heel-toe technique doesn't literally mean that one stroke is generated by the pressing with the heel of the foot on the pedal board and the second stroke generated by pressing the toes of the foot on the pedal board - hence why people who have feet too big to physically press their heel on the pedal board can still do heel toe technique.

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Are there any pedals you’d recommend for say, galloping single pedal. My pedal sucks azz and while I can gallop it’s an adventure in masochistic pain.

T-1000 said:

Could the slide technique on the bass drum be viewed as heel-toe but starting with the toe stroke and finishing with the heel stroke?

Heel-toe technique doesn't literally mean that one stroke is generated by the pressing with the heel of the foot on the pedal board and the second stroke generated by pressing the toes of the foot on the pedal board - hence why people who have feet too big to physically press their heel on the pedal board can still do heel toe technique.

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Do you guys use a tight spring on the foot pedal or more loosely?

1 hit wonder said:

I'll try it. My right does a sort of swivel but it's a more exaggerated version than the pure technique you're supposed to use. I could train it to tighten up instead of moving all th way across the pedal side to side.
Thank you.

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Try to focus on the movement and make it as short and tight as possible, also focus on making all the notes sound the same. You'll develop some kind of a snap over time and it will be easier.

Johnny2u2 said:

Are there any pedals you’d recommend for say, galloping single pedal. My pedal sucks azz and while I can gallop it’s an adventure in masochistic pain.

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What are you using? Which kind of technique you use?

Johnny2u2 said:

Do you guys use a tight spring on the foot pedal or more loosely?

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I've done both and prefer a looser spring at the moment. I'd say medium-low tension, which is pretty common in brand new pedals from the shop. I tight the spring until the pedal is comfortable to play with heel down and responsive enough to make the beater come back after a stroke. I play mostly heel up but I use this as a reference point.
It also depends on the batter head of your bass drum, how it's tuned etc. I use a mesh head which I tuned very floppy to eliminate excessive rebound, so the pedal's spring must work a little bit. Hope it helps.

Johnny2u2 said:

Do you guys use a tight spring on the foot pedal or more loosely?

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Loose for me. I want the pedal to swing freely and not be all stiff.

Johnny2u2 said:

Do you guys use a tight spring on the foot pedal or more loosely?

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I'll second (and third) what the other guys said- played at full tension for years (figuring it would make me "faster") before finally loosening up the spring tension and it's made a HUGE difference for me (for the better).

In my experience, a tighter spring helps to control the beater after a stroke because it comes back quicker, while a looser spring helps to control the beater before a stroke, which is what most people notice. With a loose spring you must pay attention in order to avoid unwanted strokes, it doesn't happen very often with a tight spring.