New Drummer, small room sound woes

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kalax

Member
Hi all,

New drummer here, about 3 months since I started.

I have a Stage Custom kit in a small space, and I have been having some issues with sound. I have my kit tuned for low resonance, but it seems that my toms have this awful flat sound to my ears, it sounds ok if I use my focusrite monitor, but I am wondering what I can do to maybe improve the sound when I am jamming without the monitor. Here is a photo of my setup. Maybe I could get some tips from you more expert drummers?
thanks in advance.

Also: Getting some snare buzz from the toms as well, but not the kick
 

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tune tension like a jazz-rock drummer it will get sorted out in the mix with other instruments. What dimensions are the drum depth+diameter- and you can experiment with batter heads that can be tensioned but still have a low shorter sustain flavor (fiberskyns, black dots, etc) without resorting to outside muffling
 
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jda said:
tune tension like a jazz-rock drummer it will get sorted out in the mix with other instruments. What dimensions are the drum depth+diameter- and you can experiment with batter heads that can be tensioned but still have a low shorter sustain flavor (fiberskyns, black dots, etc) without resorting to outside muffling
Click to expand...
Kit is
- Bass Drum: 20 x 17"
- Tom 1: 10 x 7"
- Tom 2: 12 x 8"
- Floor Tom: 14 x 11"
- Snare Drum: 14 x 5.5"

The toms currenty have coated emperors
 
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kalax said:
I have my kit tuned for low resonance, but it seems that my toms have this awful flat sound to my ears,
Click to expand...
…it sounds as if you’ve created exactly the problem you have an issue with.

If you want your toms to not sound “flat,” tune them to be more lively. You can accomplish a different sound with new heads, but with Coated Emperors, I know you can get a more lively sound out of the Stage Customs (they were my head of choice when I owned a set of SCs in my teaching studio).

My advice: tune them in such a way that their articulation and resonance comes out. With the Coated Emperors, they will naturally have a lower pitch and reduced sustain. If you tune them up just a little, so that they sustain more, they won’t sound flat, but they’ll retain the low resonance you’re looking for. If you find that they ring too long after that, throw some studio rings or Moongel on them and be done with it.
 
caddywumpus said:
…it sounds as if you’ve created exactly the problem you have an issue with.

If you want your toms to not sound “flat,” tune them to be more lively. You can accomplish a different sound with new heads, but with Coated Emperors, I know you can get a more lively sound out of the Stage Customs (they were my head of choice when I owned a set of SCs in my teaching studio).

My advice: tune them in such a way that their articulation and resonance comes out. With the Coated Emperors, they will naturally have a lower pitch and reduced sustain. If you tune them up just a little, so that they sustain more, they won’t sound flat, but they’ll retain the low resonance you’re looking for. If you find that they ring too long after that, throw some studio rings or Moongel on them and be done with it.
Click to expand...
"…it sounds as if you’ve created exactly the problem you have an issue with."

This does not surprise me.

Thanks for the tips, will give it a try. relying on my tunebot instructions is probably not helping.
 
kalax said:
"…it sounds as if you’ve created exactly the problem you have an issue with."

This does not surprise me.

Thanks for the tips, will give it a try. relying on my tunebot instructions is probably not helping.
Click to expand...
TuneBot will tell you how to tune to pitches, but you still have to find the best way to tune for yourself and your set.
 
Not sure what low resonance is.. do you mean low pitch with long resonance (ringing?). A small space esp with a wall beside and behind you is going to reflect a lot, but not insurmountable. For minimizing the resonance, tune the tom resos (lower heads) about a 3rd to a 5th higher than the batter (top) heads. This will help avoid the toms washing into each other and make them a bit more articulate.If your snare is buzzing from the toms - in severe situations you can detune the bottom snare lugs on either side of the throw off and butt plate.. it will kill the sympathetic buzzing and make the snare sound dry so just detune them 'just enough' to stop the buzz. But for gigging or open rooms tighten them back up.
I'm not a big fan of IEMs (I've really tried but for me, they take the fun out of playing music IMHO) although custom earplugs are always good to have in your stickbag if you need them. Not a tune bot user either as I prefer my ears.. although I have a 'golden snare' in my basement that I use for reference to tune the pitches of my other snares.. and they all sound awesome Lol. I use a medium high pitch that cuts, and the sound pops for a punchy sound. The trick is finding the sweet spot where the pitch is high enough to be sharp but not annoying and has snap without sounding choked and the ghost notes are are crisp but have a bit of buzz.. overall it has body. I always get compliments from audience members about how awesome my snare sound is.. so I must be doing something right..
 
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Like others have said, focus on isolating your ears before worrying about the room sound.

You only get one set of ears...protect them....and control what you are hearing there.

You have time to get to ambient controls once you have the proper space....and headphone controls/sound chain processing is a journey that will pay off down the line.
 
Stickman said:
Not sure what low resonance is.. do you mean low pitch with long resonance (ringing?). A small space esp with a wall beside and behind you is going to reflect a lot, but not insurmountable. For minimizing the resonance, tune the tom resos (lower heads) about a 3rd to a 5th higher than the batter (top) heads. This will help avoid the toms washing into each other and make them a bit more articulate.If your snare is buzzing from the toms - in severe situations you can detune the bottom snare lugs on either side of the throw off and butt plate.. it will kill the sympathetic buzzing and make the snare sound dry so just detune them 'just enough' to stop the buzz. But for gigging or open rooms tighten them back up.
I'm not a big fan of IEMs (I've really tried but for me, they take the fun out of playing music IMHO) although custom earplugs are always good to have in your stickbag if you need them. Not a tune bot user either as I prefer my ears.. although I have a 'golden snare' in my basement that I use for reference to tune the pitches of my other snares.. and they all sound awesome Lol. I use a medium high pitch that cuts, and the sound pops for a punchy sound. The trick is finding the sweet spot where the pitch is high enough to be sharp but not annoying and has snap without sounding choked and the ghost notes are are crisp but have a bit of buzz.. overall it has body. I always get compliments from audience members about how awesome my snare sound is.. so I must be doing something right..
Click to expand...
So I am not really experienced enough to tune by ear, so I use the tunebot instructions, which I guess are sub-optimal, but at least give me some kind of reference.

Tune-Bot | Change the way you tune your drums.

Introducing tune-bot Studio, the new advanced drum tuner from Overtone Labs. Welcome to precision in the palm of your hand.
tune-bot.com tune-bot.com

Under the low-resonance section is what I used for me 10/12/14
 
JDA nailed it. You TENSION not tune drums. You fine tune drums. You want to take the drum(s) to their highest pitch, up to the point where any further inhibits resonance and meaningful sustain. Using the correct star pattern, gradually increment the heads up to that point, rotating between top and bottom. This should be the spot where the resonance, volume, sensitivity, dynamic range and overall projection is maximized.

'You don't tune drums, you tension them.' Buddy Rich.

Never tune to notes, it's not a piano. When you do this properly your drums will naturally find their way to thirds / fourths, etc.

ALSO - take the toms out of the small room and into the largest room in your house one at a time and strike them. This is the best way to really know what they sound like.

Tun Bot for fine tuning, making sure there are no pitch differentials between lugs.
 
Live drums do sound flat especially in a small room. Mics and a bit of reverb can be an easy fix.

Tom mounting can also play a role. I'm not familiar with that kit but hang your rack tom from a couple of fingers and hit it. If it sounds dramatically better, you might want to upgrade your tom mount. The floor toms could be enhanced with some TnR Booty Shakers or Pearl air suspension feet.
 
NeuroticNoodler said:
Live drums do sound flat especially in a small room. Mics and a bit of reverb can be an easy fix.

Tom mounting can also play a role. I'm not familiar with that kit but hang your rack tom from a couple of fingers and hit it. If it sounds dramatically better, you might want to upgrade your tom mount. The floor toms could be enhanced with some TnR Booty Shakers or Pearl air suspension feet.
Click to expand...
This is also excellent advice. I had an old Pearl Session Custom (SRX) with the 6 ply maple shell and the older 'Opti-Mounts.' When I removed the drums from the mount they all sang.

So I spent a couple hundred bucks at the time and upgraded it with the Gauger RIMS mounts. TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIT.

The new Pearl mounts he mentions suspend from the bottom of the lugs, NOT wrapping around the tension rods and choking the drums.

I still cannot believe the difference this made.
 
kalax said:
Kit is
- Bass Drum: 20 x 17"
- Tom 1: 10 x 7"
- Tom 2: 12 x 8"
- Floor Tom: 14 x 11"
- Snare Drum: 14 x 5.5"

The toms currenty have coated emperors
Click to expand...
Agree with others...your batter and rewsos are tuned too low to get proper sustain. tune your resos up a bit higher than your batters, and tune everything up a bit. You want the shells to sustain the notes. Try removing the moongels too. your floor Tom should hold a note for like 6 seconds with a gradual decay.
 
Syncopated_1 said:
JDA nailed it. You TENSION not tune drums. You fine tune drums. You want to take the drum(s) to their highest pitch, up to the point where any further inhibits resonance and meaningful sustain. Using the correct star pattern, gradually increment the heads up to that point, rotating between top and bottom. This should be the spot where the resonance, volume, sensitivity, dynamic range and overall projection is maximized.

'You don't tune drums, you tension them.' Buddy Rich.

Never tune to notes, it's not a piano. When you do this properly your drums will naturally find their way to thirds / fourths, etc.

ALSO - take the toms out of the small room and into the largest room in your house one at a time and strike them. This is the best way to really know what they sound like.

Tun Bot for fine tuning, making sure there are no pitch differentials between lugs.
Click to expand...
First go hide before all the TuneBot fans hit you with their pitchforks.
Second I agree, you don't normally tune to a specific pitch.
In your case a Drum Dial might be an easier thing to use because it tunes to tension so if it tells you to set your lugs to say.. 65 and you do that, and if it works great, if it doesn't you can go 10 up or 10 down and see if that works.
No drum should take you more than a couple of minutes to get there. Then you can find your sweet spot without a lot of guessing and write it down (for that room) you might of course have to modify for a larger space.
 
kalax said:
Hi all,

New drummer here, about 3 months since I started.

I have a Stage Custom kit in a small space, and I have been having some issues with sound. I have my kit tuned for low resonance, but it seems that my toms have this awful flat sound to my ears, it sounds ok if I use my focusrite monitor, but I am wondering what I can do to maybe improve the sound when I am jamming without the monitor. Here is a photo of my setup. Maybe I could get some tips from you more expert drummers?
thanks in advance.

Also: Getting some snare buzz from the toms as well, but not the kick
Click to expand...
First of All, CONGRATS to You for joining the Drumming world!! Welcome aboard a great Forum to obtain Knowledge. I can vouch for that being a 73 YO guy, who resurrected playing Drums in 2019 after a 50 Year Hiatus {1969, when I was 18]. In the resurrection which my wife was a contributor to by getting me a Drum Kit for 2018 Xmas (betchya she's sorry Now, LOL), I dove all in to the modern day of drumming. i knew nothomng of different Heads, various accessories, and the Interesting world of Drum Tuning. I gave that Gammon cheapo kit to my 5 yr old grandson in 2021, then bought a USED PDP Concept Maple 7 drum kit, new Cymbals, etc. Since that time, I have Grappled with drum sounds, drum tuning, using a& trying various Heads, watching tons of YT videos, and treading this and other Drum forums to attain Knowledge.

Bottomline..... it is about experimenting with the tuning /tensioning heads, etc. I have some OCD so there's that which can cause motre frustration then is necessary especially as a Hobbyist "player of Drums" like me. But after some time and trials, I "Think" I'm in a good place with drums now. I use Evans G2 Coated & UV2 coated Batter heads on the Toms, never changed the standard Reso heads, Aquarian II Heads on my Kick Drum (used to be referred to as the Bass Drum!!)- ported on the Reso head. I use 2 different Snares - right now preferring the DW Design Series Brass over Nickel 14 X 6.5 Snare over the PDP Maple Snare 14 X 5.5 that came with the Kit. I have added a pdp Concept Black Wax Popcorn snare 10 X 6, attached to my Hi Hat stand, as well a Jam Block and Cowbell to add some "spice" when I play. I play about 4-6 X a week for about 1 hour along to MY MUSIC in my Mancave in the Finished Basement. BTW, Snare Buzz irritates me too!! I have been able to reduce the Buzz by tuning and re-tuning the Snare and the various Toms. The Snares have HD Dry Batter Heads tuned up pretty high without choking them. The acoustics in the Mancave are not the best with insulation in the ceilings and walls in our Ranch House. But at least it keeps the "noise" down upstairs where my wife will hang out. I never recorded my self other than a brief crude video my wife took on her phone when I first got started. The first Tunes I played to get back into it: Time is on My Side (Stones); Long Tall Woman in a Black Dress (Hollies); and probably some Mellencamp & Petty tunes after that...

Good Luck!!
 
doggyd69b said:
First go hide before all the TuneBot fans hit you with their pitchforks.
Second I agree, you don't normally tune to a specific pitch.
In your case a Drum Dial might be an easier thing to use because it tunes to tension so if it tells you to set your lugs to say.. 65 and you do that, and if it works great, if it doesn't you can go 10 up or 10 down and see if that works.
No drum should take you more than a couple of minutes to get there. Then you can find your sweet spot without a lot of guessing and write it down (for that room) you might of course have to modify for a larger space.
Click to expand...
No drum should take more than a couple minutes if you know what you’re doing, but to get to that point took me a lot longer than 3 months, so I would tell Kalax not to sweat how long it takes.
 
JimmyM said:
No drum should take more than a couple minutes if you know what you’re doing, but to get to that point took me a lot longer than 3 months, so I would tell Kalax not to sweat how long it takes.
Click to expand...
I don't think he was worried about the time it took, he was more worried about not sounding good for his particular room hence why I suggested using the drum dial and going up or down in increments of 10 (from the suggested setting) until he could find his happy place.
 
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