Elvin Jones mystery

J

JohnBassNYC

Member
I want to share an absolutely unique experience with a percussionist from Brazil . I've never been on a drummers forum. So this is an interesting place to present this
The player from Brazil was Rubens Bassini. A super cool dude. He was well liked both personally and musically/ having played with Brazil 66 Sergio Mendes and later with Deodato and later doing session work in NYC.

I've mentioned this in the past to other musicians but never felt satisfied with the explanation
I kind of doubt there IS an explanation!

This occurred on stage during various concerts we played together. Me on bass.
It was a good band. But I would not call it smoking. Like eg EWF.
but maybe I'm too close to it to be objective

Rubens used to say to me " they don't listen" - meaning other band members - without specifying who- a 10 piece band !)

Ok sorry for the delay. Here it is
Rubens played congas along with another conga player
But sometimes Rubens would play a large lowered pitch cow bell- he's Brazilian so maybe some of you know about this cowbell

When Rubens would start to play quarter notes. 4 to the bar
Like magic. Pure magic. My mind would suddenly feel An Elvin Jones Vibe
Elvin certainly didn't play mere quarter notes
Yet Every time this marvelous player played cowbell. Elvin Jones ( who I loved. As John Coltrane was my early influence) would pop into my head.
Logic doesn't seem to answer this puzzle. How could mere quarters on the downbeat illicit the most complex rhythm machine. Elvin Jones? How is this possible ?
It was not just once. But numerous times
!
 
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maybe it was that the pitch of the bell was (so) low it traveled deep deep under the band including it's time feel...
giving the sense that Elvin gave - when he played (or recorded) swirling so deep within the depths of the rhythm.

could be : )
```````````````````````````````
there's mambo bells
there's bass Bells
Lp percussion has had a whole list of shapes and sizes

some (I imagine ) can get "subterranean" ala EJ

: )

Either that or it was something in his phrasing even with "mere" quarters that set off an Elvin "time-feel" in you..

Elvin certainly has a quarter note pulse it just may not be the one you me or the guy or girl next door has..
You know he said many times that early in his career he states "I started to get this reputation, that guys couldn't play with me"
those are his exact words spoken in "different Drummer" a VHS from the early 90s

As always two sides to every shiny coin.
You may (want to) (it's on the internet written about and there's video too) review the time briefly for a year or two tour I assume he (Elvin) was featured in Duke Ellington's Orchestra- that had its left and right turns.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Thanks for this amazing story! It's a very powerful thing what a good player can do with the time feel in a band. The cowbell marks the quarter note so strongly, I'm not surprised it can change how we hear the rest of the band, even if 'they don't listen'!
 
JohnBassNYC said:
Rubens Bassini
Click to expand...

That's a good Brazilian name-- like the pianist who played on my last couple of records was Weber Drummond, from Rio. Brazil has got to be the most multicultural country in the world, along with the USA.

JohnBassNYC said:
When Rubens would start to play quarter notes. 4 to the bar
Like magic. Pure magic. My mind would suddenly feel An Elvin Jones Vibe
Elvin certainly didn't play mere quarter notes
Yet Every time this marvelous player played cowbell. Elvin Jones ( who I loved. As John Coltrane was my early influence) would pop into my head.
Logic doesn't seem to answer this puzzle. How could mere quarters on the downbeat illicit the most complex rhythm machine. Elvin Jones? How is this possible ?
It was not just once. But numerous times
!
Click to expand...

Maybe he put them in the same kind of spot:

 
JohnBassNYC said:
When Rubens would start to play quarter notes. 4 to the bar
Like magic. Pure magic. My mind would suddenly feel An Elvin Jones Vibe

Logic doesn't seem to answer this puzzle. How could mere quarters on the downbeat illicit the most complex rhythm machine. Elvin Jones? How is this possible ?
Click to expand...
Maybe they weren’t ‘mere’ quarter notes. By that I mean, instead of playing the quarter notes exactly on the beat, or exactly ahead or behind the beat like how most drummers would play it, his natural feel pushed or pulled the quarters in just such a way that made it reminiscent of an Elvin Jones feel. If that was the case, it wouldn’t be obvious to the average listener. But it could potentially be very obvious to an astute Elvin fan such as yourself.
 
Yes yes. I love love both of these wonderful players Elvin and Rubens

So not on beat. Not ahead - and not behind
I wonder if this is measurable ( is that a pun. Measure able!)
Is Elvin (god of modern drumming at that time ) known to play behind or ahead ?
I just now recall someone in a conversation ages ago saying to me Elvin played all of it. On. Ahead and behind. AT THE SAME TIME. Made sense to me. But I can't prove it!
But that's 4 limbs
Ruben is only one!!
Thank you
 
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yes the bar lines were there but made of vertical spaghetti there but flex y malleable
 
jda said:
yes the bar lines were there but made of vertical spaghetti there but flex y malleable
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Thinking further about this mystery
I don't recall who our drummer was. We had a few . And not counting the session drummers. The drummers playing concerts were not all that hip. I'm not sure ( drummers will find this interesting) the sheer volume of a fusion ten piece with electric bass. - I'm not sure the sheer physicality of playing drums loudly , is entirely compatible with more subtle music of Elvin!
Now my two favorite jazz drummers of that time. were, Elvin ( Coltrane ) and Tony Williams ( Miles Davis )
Neither of whom played softly by jazz standards
But compared to rock pop funk drumming jazz is softer
Jazz did not have electric bass or even amplified string bass in the early sixties
And electrical aspect raises the ceiling on drum volume
Am I mistaken. Saying very loud levels on stage tend to erase subtle articulation !!!

Rubens lower pitched large cowbell
Fit in perfectly from my pov on stage
I really needed Rubens cowbell to lift the groove to another ( higher for me ) level
Again most drummers did not have that kind of skill
Later on Tony Williams did play louder style of music True
But I don't think he played that way with Miles and Ron Carter
Maybe I'm all wet , with these theories - but Elvin played loud relative to jazz drummers of the period. But not slamming rock levels.
 
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I would say the range is wider- whereas Rock may stay at one level- with occasion dips in dynamics- certain passages in (Elvin) jazz relax to conversational level then approach volcanic level- so the wider gaps

But Rock can be played that way too. Just isn't as often but can.
And playing 'rock or pop' that way extreme exaggerated dynamics is more Fun

I love (responding to drama 😁 to keep me 'awake and interested.
 
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JohnBassNYC said:
I was enthralled - starting as a teen with Coltrane. I don't suppose aside from listening there is any analysis of the great. Elvin Jones !!
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I have two Afro-Cuban books and they both have Elvin references and grooves in them. The grooves are killer, but the way he wove them into the music is incredible IMO.
 
there's a couple sentences I could use to boil down Elvin
One he's in 3 and 2 simultaneously generally all the time always
and 2) he loves a quarter-note triplet - each quarter note a triplet- to equal 9- effortlessly between 2 hands and 1 foot at any dynamic pressure from super-soft to apocalyptic as if he was born with three hands - in this circumstance his foot is as fleet as his hand like there's no difference

If you've ever seen your cat jump from the kitchen table to the counter top & stop before going over the edge you've just witnessed an Elvin
 
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One short anecdote
I was hearing Elvin's group at Slugs
I don't recall any of the band members
And at some point I said to myself. This isn't "happening" - I don't recall how long after that thought; that Elvin musically exploded on the bandstand.
My intuition told me. Elvin was angered by the relative lethargy, and his musical explosion ( sorry that's the best my words can translate ) woke that band up immediately!
I will never forget , nor doubt my intuition on what Elvin did that night.
I've never seen a band transformed that suddenly before or since.
 
jda said:
there's a couple sentences I could use to boil down Elvin
One he's in 3 and 2 simultaneously generally all the time always
and 2) he loves a quarter-note triplet - each quarter note a triplet- to equal 9- effortlessly between 2 hands and 1 foot at any dynamic pressure from super-soft to apocalyptic as if he was born with three hands - his foot in this circumstance is as fleet as his hand like there's no difference

If you've ever seen your cat jump from the kitchen table to the counter top & stop before going over the edge you've just witnessed an Elvin
Click to expand...
Here's a fun one in 3/4...

EJ.jpeg
 
(I've always said) if Woodwind Circular Breathing had an equivalent in drum set it'd be Elvin Jones
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So in ChatGpt. type
"woodwind circular breathing"

wait for it to answer then type
"the equivalent in drum set is Elvin Jones"

and see it's answer
 
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paulwellsdrums said:
I’m curious what book that came from?
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Tamboreter nailed it:

Page 17: Afro-Cuban Rhythms for Drumset by Frank Malabe and Bob Weiner

I cannot recommend this book highly enough BTW, one of the best I have ever come across. As a matter of fact, I think I inquired on this forum a couple of years ago for a good Afro-Cuban book and this was what several folks here recommended.
 
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