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Are heel-toe and slide bass drum technique the same thing?

T

T-1000

Senior Member
Could the slide technique on the bass drum be viewed as heel-toe but starting with the toe stroke and finishing with the heel stroke?

Heel-toe technique doesn't literally mean that one stroke is generated by the pressing with the heel of the foot on the pedal board and the second stroke generated by pressing the toes of the foot on the pedal board - hence why people who have feet too big to physically press their heel on the pedal board can still do heel toe technique.
 
T-1000 said:
Heel-toe technique doesn't literally mean that one stroke is generated by the pressing with the heel of the foot on the pedal board and the second stroke generated by pressing the toes of the foot on the pedal board
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It literally does mean exactly that (guess I've been doing it wrong all these years) 😅

Having said that, I do have large feet which made it necessary to convert my Demon Drives to longboard configuration in order to do heel toe comfortably.
 
I don't think they are meant to be the same. I'm no instructor though, I learned them off youtube
 
Thanks, @Fred D.

I don't know what all y'all are doing that requires that, but I'm pretty stoked on what I've heard described as "heel-down". None of the music I play requires that.
 
T-1000 said:
Could the slide technique on the bass drum be viewed as heel-toe but starting with the toe stroke and finishing with the heel stroke?

Heel-toe technique doesn't literally mean that one stroke is generated by the pressing with the heel of the foot on the pedal board and the second stroke generated by pressing the toes of the foot on the pedal board - hence why people who have feet too big to physically press their heel on the pedal board can still do heel toe technique.
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No the slide technique is an entirely different motion.

Hell-toe is a compound technique like open-close for hands. The two strokes are NOT identical. One is made by the heel and the other is made by the toe coming down on the footboard afterwards.

Heel-toe is pretty much only used in metal for three reasons:

1. It's easy
2. It allows one to play fast with minimal effort. (Almost always triggered)
3. It allows one to easily drop a double stroke into a pattern ala Lamb of God type stuff

Most people trigger heel toe and set the dynamics to linear so that the two strokes come out front sounding the same.

Slide is like the good old fashioned double strokes that Bonham did.
 
Jeff Almeyda said:
No the slide technique is an entirely different motion.

Hell-toe is a compound technique like open-close for hands. The two strokes are NOT identical. One is made by the heel and the other is made by the toe coming down on the footboard afterwards.

Heel-toe is pretty much only used in metal for three reasons:

1. It's easy
2. It allows one to play fast with minimal effort. (Almost always triggered)
3. It allows one to easily drop a double stroke into a pattern ala Lamb of God type stuff

Most people trigger heel toe and set the dynamics to linear so that the two strokes come out front sounding the same.

Slide is like the good old fashioned double strokes that Bonham did.
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This is very good explanation and it makes sense to me for the live audio capture.

I tend to do heel to toe singles and doubles on runs if I need the ‘all out’ constant speed.

I can do fast singles using slide technique with more control it seems like.

For instance, I can play singles along to the tunes of Disturbed’s Liberate, Rise, their cover of Land of Confusion, Meshuggah Choirs of Devastation with slide technique.
 
Lefty Phillips said:
Yeah, that totally works for me, been playing around with ghost notes a lot, lately.

It's all there, no "flying heel" required for what I'm doing.
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I enjoy learning advanced technique even if it’s rare I need it. Makes the easier stuff seem that much easier. But I’ve been working on this heel toe stuff for months and I still can’t do it to any level beyond accidental ;).

And forget sliding! That one just doesn’t compute. I have to do the trickier things the hard way, but I’ll keep plugging with these techniques and maybe I’ll stumble upon the secret soon.
 
Jeff Almeyda said:
No the slide technique is an entirely different motion.

Hell-toe is a compound technique like open-close for hands. The two strokes are NOT identical. One is made by the heel and the other is made by the toe coming down on the footboard afterwards.

Heel-toe is pretty much only used in metal for three reasons:

1. It's easy
2. It allows one to play fast with minimal effort. (Almost always triggered)
3. It allows one to easily drop a double stroke into a pattern ala Lamb of God type stuff

Most people trigger heel toe and set the dynamics to linear so that the two strokes come out front sounding the same.

Slide is like the good old fashioned double strokes that Bonham did.
Click to expand...

Slide has even less power than heel toe, especially the first stroke, and the reason heel toe is used in metal instead of slide is because the slide motion isn't continuous, you need to return to the start position (good enough for doubles). Heel toe is a constant up and down motion, there's no start or finish to it; the motion fuels itself, making it perfect for continuous double bass.
 
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Is what Reuben Spyker is doing in this video (best seen at 2:45) heel-toe or slide technique?


Is there a way of doing slide technique continuously to pump out sequential single strokes instead of only using it for doubles? Is the above video an example of continuous slide technique?
 
bud7h4 said:
Slide has even less power than heel toe, especially the first stroke, and the reason heel toe is used in metal instead of slide is because the slide motion isn't continuous, you need to return to the start position (good enough for doubles). Heel toe is a constant up and down motion, there's no start or finish to it; the motion fuels itself, making it perfect for continuous double bass.
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Yes it’s MUCH harder to make it work with slide.

Here’s one guy who has it better than anyone:

 
T-1000 said:
Is what Reuben Spyker is doing in this video (best seen at 2:45) heel-toe or slide technique?


Is there a way of doing slide technique continuously to pump out sequential single strokes instead of only using it for doubles? Is the above video an example of continuous slide technique?
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That is slide. It looks heel-toe-ish when he slows it down because he's exaggerating the movement.
 
Ghede said:
Looks heel-toe to me...
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When he slows it down, it's some kind of hybrid. When he plays it faster it's ( a weird) slide. I wouldn't recommend either the slow or fast technique. It looks like a mess to me compared to far more efficient and effective techniques. Toward the end of the video he demonstrates the power you can get, so it's not all bad. But all the effort comes from your core and hip flexors. It's not something I'd want to do for any length of time.
 
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Seems to me a lot of players good at heel toe and sliding use longboards, yet I have been told you can learn to do it on anything. But sometimes I see vids of players with longboards and it really does look like the motions with the heel are easier to execute for them. Is there anything to that or am I making a pathetic excuse? ;)
 
JimmyM said:
Seems to me a lot of players good at heel toe and sliding use longboards, yet I have been told you can learn to do it on anything. But sometimes I see vids of players with longboards and it really does look like the motions with the heel are easier to execute for them. Is there anything to that or am I making a pathetic excuse? ;)
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I believe it's easier with longboards (but I've got pretty large hooves).
 
JimmyM said:
Seems to me a lot of players good at heel toe and sliding use longboards, yet I have been told you can learn to do it on anything. But sometimes I see vids of players with longboards and it really does look like the motions with the heel are easier to execute for them. Is there anything to that or am I making a pathetic excuse? ;)
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I’ve learned heel to toe from @beyondbetrayal’s vids.

While I had and still have the Demonator that converts to longboard, I didn’t use it.

But, I have since pulled out the board and there’s something to the less sloping incline with the board space that you can sort of dig your heels and feel the pedal better with that solid ground support foundation for the heels.

Seriously, check the dudes vids out, he makes it as easy as it seems.

I thought I’d never get it whilst watching and it was about two weeks when I was working with that in material. My bounces sound very tight and have presence, and I’m not triggering in any way.
 
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